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Don’t use the toll roads? You pay for them anyway
November 18th, 2009, 6:00 am · 54 Comments · posted by Jennifer Muir
Can’t afford to drive on the toll roads? Then chances are it’ll be decades before you’ll see some $7.3 million in federal stimulus cash at work.
That’s how much the feds are spending on asphalt improvements on the 73 — along a 12.3-mile section of the road where you can’t take your car unless you pony up lots of pocket change.
So the Watchdog called Jennifer Seaton, a spokeswoman for the Toll Road Agencies, to ask the next obvious question: If my tax dollars are paying for new asphalt on the road, then why do I have to pay again to drive on it?
(TCA is the government agency that operates the 73, 241, 261 and 133 toll roads in Orange County.)
Seaton explained that our tax dollars pay for more than just the asphalt improvements. The state actually owns the roads and also pays to maintain them. Caltrans spends about $1.6 million per year on those roads, spokeswoman Tracey Lavelle said.
AND, since they’re all part of the state highway system, they also qualify for federal cash.
Confusing? Here’s the back story: The toll roads were originally planned to be free public roadways. But in the 1980s, government cash to build them was scarce, Seaton said, so local elected officials and transportation planners started looking at other, more creative ways to pay for building them.
Their solution: Make the drivers who use the roads share the cost of construction. TCA was born in 1987, and — backed by future tolls and developer fees — started issuing bonds to build the roads.
On opening day, they handed over ownership to the state. The idea is that the toll fees will pay off the construction bonds, at which point the roads will be free for all.
In the meantime, since the state owns the roads, Caltrans is responsible for maintaining them at the state’s expense, Seaton says.
“I think it’s one of those things that people try to craft as (being) inflammatory,” Seaton said. “By building the roads, the toll roads has given the state $3 billion worth of infrastructure for free. It’s $3 billion worth of roads that the state didn’t have to build.”
Caltrans also maintains other toll roads, but taxpayers aren’t on the hook for the expense.
For example, the Orange County Transportation Authority, which owns the 91 Express Lanes, pays Caltrans about $250,000 a year for maintenance. The South Bay Expressway in San Diego also repays Caltrans for the agency’s work, Lavelle said.
So when will those of us who can’t afford $5 a trip every day get to enjoy that public infrastructure? Not till 2040. And maybe later if TCA can get a lower interest rate by refinancing the debt.
TCA still owes $2,047,516,000 for the San Joaquin Hills (73) Toll Road, and $2,268,136,000 for the Foothill/Eastern, which includes the 241, 261 and 133.
Hopefully the Watchdog will still be driving by the time all that debt is paid off.
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Yet again another example of the public being ripped off by the combination of private \public special interest thieves.
Yes, damn them for using federal funds to repair roads, what we need is more of those anti graffiti tiles.
Stop voting for bonds and stop using the toll roads.
Don’t forget that the toll roads take congestion off of regular ground streets and freeways. Personally I would rather have them always have a toll to maintain a reliable traffic-free route I can take when I’m in a rush.
agreed.
plus the public gets to use them eventually - they just have to wait til they’re paid for by the cars choosing to use them now. as the spokesman correctly pointed out, the state of CA and its taxpayers essentially get a free road.
all the state has to do is maintain them until then, and the taxpayers then own it, with the construction paid for by private citizens who decide to use it right away (which is completely unlike every other roadway, everyone has to wait for, then sit through years of nightmare planning and construction while they actually try to build the things).
You’re kidding right? The 73 was supposedly built to alleviate traffic on the 5 and 405 between it’s starting point in the south at Avery and it’s end to the north at Fairview. When coming north on 5, guess where the real traffic starts….. that’s right, at Avery. The 73 has done nothing for traffic. That road is empty, and the TCA is going bankrupt.
The toll roads were an experiment. And it failed. Get rid of the TCA now. They thrive on you and I sitting in traffic.
As hard as they have been fighting for the toll road extension this, backed by future tolls & “developer fees”
Developer bribes would be more like it!!!!
I use the 73 frequently, priceless. And they’ve done an outstanding job on improvements in the last six months. Obviously the OC/TCA has a lot of influential lobbying power. Every time I drive the Grapevine, I pray. So while it’s frustrating we pay twice/ pay even if we don’t use it; I tend to look at the rest of CA who hasn’t seen highway improvements for years. There the ones who are really getting hosed.
Blame Rep Ken CALVERT. Rep. Calvert has not provided any thing to help those impacted by IndyMac Bank Failure. He has failed and can not think.
Don’t use schools? You’re still paying!!! Have no use for Sacramento, you’re still paying!!!
exactly. the fraction of tax dollars that go to maintain the toll roads are a mere sliver of these two expenses.
I sure have no use for what you mention, but hey I get to pay.
Well, let’s look at the positive angle on this. Even though the majority of people, including myself, don’t use the toll road, but are still technically paying for it, the fact that many other people who drive the same freeway I do use it means less traffic on the lanes that are of no cost to use. In a way, the toll road still does benefit us by taking cars from our lanes and putting them into toll lanes. Still, it does suck that we pay for something we can’t use. Then again, many government programs are already doing exactly that.
“technically paying for it”
yes,but only the maintenance, on a road they will eventually own anyway.
You should have asked Ms. Seaton why the Toll Road Agency raises the rates when too many drivers use the toll roads (91 lanes) and also raises the rates when too little drivers use the toll roads (al of them).?
it might be better to consult a microeconomist and ask them about supply & demand
The general pubilc also pays in lost time sitting in grid lock while the privileged few access the toll roads paid for with the tax payments of the majority.
Toll roads are a fact of life in the East. I don’t see what the big deal is.
Right when the toll roads first opened, if you had any questions on billing or issues that needed to be dealt the number you had to use was a New York Number.
Just something that makes you say hmmmmmm?
crock of dew dew. All toll roads were ment to be free when the cost to build them was repayed ( the big promise). The Government never gives up a revenue stream to fleece the tax payer, otherwise they would be out of business. Go check out Illonois, Oklohoma or any other Toll Road Heavy State. It is all a racket.
No need to go out of state. Just look at the bridges in the San Francisco Bay area.
The Toll Roads are pathetic. THe only reason i drive on the toll road is because where i am located in South County its the closest “Freeway” to get out of my area. Kinda funny? I have to drive at least 20 - 25 ( with lights ) to get to the closest freeway on ramp..yet i can get to the toll road ( at least 3 different on ramps ) in under 5.
“All toll roads were ment to be free when the cost to build them was repayed ( the big promise).”
Bingo!
So move away from the area? There’s no reason to live way out in the sticks where the 241 is the only nearby freeway when you can live closer to the 5.
hey, are those confidential license plate holders who work for the gobblement still violating the toll road laws and skating??? That story fell off the planet. There are still a million or more of these plates on the California roads! And I understand that the state legislator wants to expand the program for state veterinarians and FF’s!!! hah. Hundreds of millions of fines and penalties were lost since the state could not track them down due to their confidential home addresses! But maybe they are finally going after them. I noticed that the OCTA was ordered by the courts to forgive or to refund $42 million is past fines and penalties. Maybe the gobblement confidential license plate holders were the driving for behind that ruling! hah! Does this mean they have to forgive or refund the $200000 in fines and penalties run up by the county social services employee???
You’re an idiot! You continually spew trash and have no idea what you’re talking about. Any and all toll violations get sent to the employee’s place of work. They do not get pushed under the carpet.
Just out of curiousity, do you work? Have you ever done anything that actually contributes to society or your community other than whine, bitch and complain?
STOP WORRYING ABOUT OTHERS AND GET A LIFE!!
sounds like Bob has a “special” plate he’d like to keep using!
um ya Bob you dont sound to smart, i guess you didnt read the article about it, or you are an owner of a special plate, anyways dont gob off if you dont know facts
yep still wondering whatever happened to the follow-up on that…
bps, todd spitzer supposedly authored a bill to put a stop to it. it passed the legislature but Arnold vetoed it. hah. so it was designed to fail from the start. none of them wanted it to pass. so Arnold played the game with them and struck it down. nothing has changed. old bob says the citiations were mailed to their place of business. hah! And then virtually crapcanned. Bob never mentioned that. some of these clowns ran up fines and penalties of $200k. hah. so my point is that when they went after them for the cash maybe the public employee unions were involved in funding a lawsuit which resulted in the courts forgiving or refunding $42 million to the violators. nothing would suprise me these days. there are so many backroom deals and skulduggery going on these days that it’s hard to keep up. but I have a memory like an elephant. once I absorb it, it sticks like glue.
Wait just a minute. My tax dollars are paying for the “privately funded” toll roads that were supposed to be freeways but weren’t because, after years of profligate spending, government claimed it had no money? What a bill of goods we’ve had rammed down our throats.
I avoid the toll roads, for the most part, but it is nice to know that if I need it, I have the option, even with the $5 toll. My biggest complaint is I think the 73 has been mis-designed. It is a death trap in the rain, because everything was designed to drain across the traffic lanes. Even in the light rain from last month, I drove on the toll road and could feel the car hydroplaning. In a downpour, I would have been off the road.
pretty sure all freeways are designed like that to some degree. otherwise they’d all be “arched”, but they’re not, they’re essentially flat. in my experience, you can see sheets of water running across them in a downpour. the 73 might be worse because of the speeds people drive them, and the hills you have to go over.
Might as well live in a Communist Country.
They wouldn’t be charging you tolls and taxes if you lived in a communist country.
I used to use the toll roads. The traffic congestion was the same as the 5 or 405. The only difference was in a traffic jam on a road with a beautiful view while surrounded by expensive cars.
The only difference was in a traffic jam on a road with a beautiful view while surrounded by expensive cars.
————————————————————————
not anymore. I’ve noticed expensive cars are becoming rarer and rarer in the OC. The times have changed.
We will ALWAYS be paying to use these roads. The bay brides were paid off years ago and tolls are still assessed - infact they go up!. Once a government gets its hands on a payment stream, they always find a way to keep it in place.
Joe Biden is right, our country is based upon the principle of socialism for the well-off and capitalism for the less well-off. You make a certain amount, you get to join the “money club” with its many benefits (supported by the poorer).
Oh, yep. they’ve got it down to a science. privatize the gains, socialize the losses.
Bottom line: if you’re ham ‘n egger you get caught holding the bag.
But they can’t keep it up much longer without the entire system (as we know it) collapsing.
Just announced today that the State is forecast to run over another $20 BILLION dollar deficit in 2010.
Where’s that going to come from???
Will the feds print some more phoney money contributing to a hastened collapse or will they start talking higher taxes (and probably cause an uprising) or will they do the right thing and cut deeply into those gobblement pensions???
Stay tuned.
Don’t forget that Just HAVING a fast track transponder used to be free but now costs $4 per month, so they get me for $50 dollars a year even if I just keep it for a once in a while convenience. Their crooks, plain and simple, and anyone thinking that those tolls are going away in 2040 is dreaming. There still collecting tolls for the brooklyn bridge in NY and it was build over 90 years ago. They have paid it off 5 or 6 times over, now they pay for the maintenance of the toll booths and to keep the toll booth collectors employed.
I believe this is correct, not 100% sure but at least 90%:
it’s $2.00 per transponder if you spend less than some arbitrary amount, I think it’s $10 per month but might be $15.
I agree it’s annoying, and used to be $1, so I don’t know how they justify charging so much to not use it. the solution is to send them back and/or pay cash if you don’t use them.
I’ve had an account since 1997 and I don’t get charged $4 a month. I just looked over my statements. Also, with an account you save money. They give you a discount when driving during peak times. My statement for last month shows I got $22 in discounts.
Someone please pass the Vaseline
There are two issues here but only one is addressed: The state is paying for maintenance on the roads because one day they will be freeways. Seems to me it’d make more sense to charge more to the users and have the TCA pay for the maintenance on a road only a small portion of drivers use.
The second, bigger issue in my opinion, is glossed over. Originally, the roads were supposed to be made into freeways after 30 years. But, the state has let that timeline be pushed further and further back due to low revenue and allowing the refinancing of the debt. And now that the TCA has turned into a full fledged bureaucracy, it’s doubtful that the roads will ever be free, otherwise a lot of county workers would be laid off. And that will never happen.
which county workers? TCA is a private agency. and since the tollroads aren’t scheduled to all become public at the same time, what you describe isn’t too likely in the near future.
and if they ever build more, they won’t go away anytime soon.
This is a candy coated machine to rip off the tax payer. For us by us?
Beware of the auto membership and monthly charges you are signing up for and will have to cancell.
For those of you that think there is less congestion because of the toll roads, that isn’t correct. Those roads were built and backed by developers fees, because the Master Plan in O.C. says they have to pay for infrastructure and it must be built if they want to develop. This is how they get out of it. They make us pay for it. Then, when the infrastructure is there, in goes the development. So we aren’t really getting less congestion, we are actually getting more.
“but government cash to build them was scarce”
Um…no. The people who have been in control of the state legislature choose to steal the money from the transportation fund every single year to cover their overspending. Basically not using the money for infrastructure and funneling the money to social programs. Yet every election cycle these same clowns get re-elected and people complain again. “Why don’t they spend the money to build roads?” and they never think “Gosh, I keep electing the same idiots into office, but I never get the change I was promised. Maybe I should elect someone else.”
Is re-electing the same fools from the same party that has been in control of the state legislature for decades going to fix our problems? NOPE!
People that drive the toll road pay gasoline taxes. Gasoline taxes are what pays for road improvements. I don’t see the problem. Seems like a wash to me.
Does caltrans pay for the water going into the sewer on the 261?
“Surprised”
You THINK gasoline taxes are what pay for road improvements. Why don’t we force Taxamento to open up the books and show us where they really go. Just like 50% of Lotto proceeds are supposed to go to the schools. You sure couldn’t tell from the CA school national standings. Based on a recent article in the Rgeister it sounds like it goes to support $100,000.00/year school employee pensions.
I am so happy they finished the 210 to 15 to 215. I go to the HD routinely and I used to use the 91 fastrack . I cancelled the account because they charge $2 for “account maintenance” for something I didn’t use anymore.
Fact: TCA’s roads carry less than 10% of the traffic on parallel freeways.
Here’s a link, see for yourself: http://www.octa.net/pdf/2007traffic.pdf
Fact: TCA has not paid Dime One on their bond principals. So the date when the roads will be “free” moves steadily away into the future.
Fact: TCA is an industry unto itself, a featherbed for public employees whose first priority is job security and pensions. Every hear of a toll faciltiy– bridge, tunnel, or road– EVER being paid off?
51% of South OC’s superhighways are operated by the TCA for the benefit of a tiny minority of drivers. TCA should be abolished!
How? Negotiate a reduced bond settlement. The Bonds are non-recourse, meaning no one but TCA– not taxpayers, not Caltrans, not California– is obligated.
The 405 is scheduled for $2-Billion worth of widening to handle projected volume, volume TCA promised would be reduced by the 73.
Use those funds to retire the 73 Bonds. Free up that road for relief of the taxpaying public!
$-Billions more will be spent on the 5, 55, and 91 in the next 20 years. Defer some of that improvement and use those funds to pay off the 241 and free it up.
Contact the OCTA Board. Tell them you want the TCA shut down.
Those of you who support private roads, consider Mexico. When visiting family it is always sad to see that those with less $$ have to deal with dirt roads. It isn’t until a wealthy person decides to pave their own street that a road is actually built (my father lives along a dirt road and my grandfather, just a few blocks over, has had his paved by a wealthy neighbor).
I am proud of my heritage but disappointed in the the politics of that country. The United States of America is an AMAZING NATION!! We can’t let it deteriorate by allowing bullies like the TCA rob us of our right to safe, accessible transportation networks.