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The $100,000-plus pension club in La Habra, Laguna Beach, Los Alamitos
November 17th, 2009, 11:00 am · 348 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
We really don’t like to irritate so many of our readers. But we’ve been working our way through the CalPERS database of public retirees for weeks now, and it would be wrong to stop halfway through.
So, we pick up today with three of O.C.’s smaller cities, which have eight retirees who get pensions of more than $100,000 a year. They are:
- La Habra, which has four (the top guy being former City Manager — and current county CEO – Thomas Mauk, at $120,265 a year, which brings his total annual haul to almost $500,000, our colleague Jennifer Muir recently discovered)
- Laguna Beach, which has two (the top guy being former Police Chief James Spreine, $125,647)
- and Los Alamitos, which also has two (the top guy being former Police Chief Michael McCrary).
This brings total membership in O.C.’s $100,000-plus club to 195 (with a baker’s dozen more O.C. entities to go).
See full lists and links to previous stories below.
- Anaheim, 59
- Brea, 13
- Buena Park, 11
- Costa Mesa, 27
- Fountain Valley, 11
- CSU Fullerton, 1
- Garden Grove, 14
- Huntington Beach, 35
- Irvine, 16
And so here now, without further ado:
LA HABRA
THOMAS MAUK $120,264.60
CARLENE COOK $112,656.96
JOHN REES $105,276.60
STEVEN COSTANZO $101,012.64
LAGUNA BEACH
JAMES SPREINE $125,647.32
DANELL ADAMS $111,705.72
LOS ALAMITOS
MICHAEL McCRARY $108,159.84
MARK WAGNER $105,707.52
And here are our regular disclaimers:
- We know that the number of public retirees in the $100,000-plus club — 6,133 — is just a tiny fraction of those in CalPERS.
- We know that the average CalPERS pensioner collects just $15,948 a year.
- We know that many public employees pay into their retirement funds — but that many cities and special districts pay the employee contribution, as well as the employer contribution.
- But we also know that some public agencies still want to increase retirement benefits — and thus, the number of people in the $100,000-plus club — at the very time that CalPERS’ investments are tanking, and when CalPERS’ own eggheads say that the system is unsustainable.
- Who will be on the hook to pay those generous pensions if the money’s not there? The taxpayers.
- Once those generous pension benefits are granted, undoing them is virtually impossible — as Orange County’s $2 million legal battle to do just that illustrates.
More on pensions:
More Watchdog:
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That’s why I advocate the Gov declare bankruptcy for the State to renegotiate pensions to a more reasonable payout. It’s not fair that the fat cats at the top take up most of CalPers pensions while the REAL WORKERS get paid bunk! Plus, raise the retirement age to 65 just like everybody else. Further, if leaving one job for another, your pension goes with you. No more of these new pensions for different jobs. Plus, the bozos in the state legislature need to overturn the law they created back when CA’s melting pot was overflowing with cash. Which means the state has to pay the pension increases no matter what and at a min. NO company does that and the state, local, and feds shouldn’t, so each agency should conform to the private sector. After all, WE THE PEOPLE pay those generous pork benefits and pensions for those fat cat bozos who probably didn’t deserve it anyway. What do the taxpayers get out of anything? NOTHING but more taxes to pay for the pork!!! VOTE THE BOZO’s OUT and take back your STATE! And the Fed Govt too.
Completely agree with Bill. The public pensions are a joke. Why give generous pensions at taxpayer expense when hundreds show up for a job opening. California is the poster child for a giveaway legislature. Working for the government should be the last resort for job seekers instead of a lottery ticket to retirement.
wrong— the state can’t “declare” bk— this is bs dull normal Register garbage against the working man– the avg gov worker retires with far less and they know it— these things are vested and airtight and calpers has had a 7.75 roi over 20 years and made bacl 40% of the losses suffred during the stock market plunge— move on…
ocaet says:
wrong— the state can’t “declare” bk—
==================
The state doesn’t NEED to declare bankruptcy-they simply just don’t have to pay, and there is no one that can MAKE them pay either-in state or federal court- under the 11th Amendment.
So sorry perry Mason Jr.
the pensions are deserved and well earnesd and in the case of the average employee—– very small….these big ones are a tiny minority…and they are vested—- and state’s can’t declare bk……
tommy b says:
—- and state’s can’t declare bk……
=========
See my above post “Tommy”
wrong again owned one—–look at Marburry v Madison— are you predicting the undoing of the whole US?? Kook? hmmmm or ……troll?
wrong again owned one—–look at Marburry v Madison— are you predicting the undoing of the whole US??
===========================
Marbury v madison established judicial review-it has nothing to do with the 11th Amendment-OK mr Johnny Cochran the III.
Like I said “Tommy”, if the state refuses to pay there is nothing you or any other trough feeder can do about it. Go read the 11th Amendment Junior.
Why do police chiefs always seem to be the biggest money grabbers?? Aren’t there public executives with bigger responsibilities who deserve more?? But the cops always seem to be first in line and served the biggest portion. Why is that??
OC,
Maybe they were smart enough to know what their pensions would be before going into public service and they worked hard to succeed. Sounds like smart planning for the future to me. But there will always be folks like you out there that just love to complain about anything law enforcement. And you are complaining about law enforcement since that’s the only group you mentioned in your post. With you, that’s par for the course!
Random,
whether the ones first in line were cops, dog catchers, ditch diggers, electricians, meter readers or hose pullers, I would question why such an inordinate number of the same profession are the biggest money grabbers. It’s got nothing specifically to do with LE. It’s merely a human observation. Stop making it out to be something that it’s not. Mr. taxpayer hater.
oc— seriously man you need help—–all you can do is repeat—- look at the register’s disclaimers— they are the reason this whole thing aint news sleepy…
But it is fun to spin oc up—— it’s the same old rehash out here…but fun watching ocobs and his sad friends get excited— let the games begin!
Random Guy says:
November 17, 2009 at 11:57 amOC,
Maybe they were smart enough to know what their pensions would be before going into public service and they worked hard to succeed.
=====================
Wow, that is yet another WHOOPER lie (to go with the one that cops die 5 years after retiring!!).
The pensions have all been “gifted” during the last 10 years retroactively-why do you think this state is bankrupt????
Maybe in Orange County, but not in LA County or CalPERS. But then JB has always cherry-picked his facts.
Maybe in Orange County, but not in LA County or CalPERS
========================
I don’t know about LA, but it is a moot point b/c LA does NOT have the 3%@50 scam.
As for Calpers-the majority of muni’s in this state use Calpers, and all of this muni’s gave retroactive pension increses at some tiem during the last 10 years.
Simple. Police chiefs are generally sworn officers with safety retirement plans, while other public executives are in non-safety plans. They get a much higher pension after 30 years of service than a non-safety executive with the same number of years.
Oh, that justifies it.
Maybe everybody should be ’sworn’ at what they do it increase their payout twofold. hah.
You asked why they were at the top. I simply explained it; I don’t recall saying it was justified.
Maybe from the life and death issues involved, generating policies and procedures in accordance with the U.S. & state constitutions, dealing with multimillion dollar budgets, etc.
why is this anyones business? As far as I know none of these cities received any Obamabucks in a bailout so it is no ones business.
Taxpayers directly and indirectly fund these pensions and may well be on the hook if the pension funds run short in the future. That’s why it’s our business.
CA state/local govts received $18bl in ARRA (aka Obama bucks) to bailout CA govt workers.
CA is WH an extra 10% of CA workers pay. This on top of a record tax increase earlier this year. Another govt worker bailout.
Police and firefighting salaries, pensions and overtime consume, on average, more than 60% of CA city budget according to the League of California Cities.
Actuaries estimate the CALPERS unfunded retirement liability to be $118 BILLION. The unfunded healthcare liability is estimated to be even higher. So, these current $100k pensioners are a mere trickle compared to the tsunami of $100k recipients coming.
Taxpayers on the hook for this unfunded liability.
So, this makes it everyone’s business.
Now, nthBLOME’s reply. Light me up buddy!
California is NOT withholding an extra 10% of your pay. California is INCREASING the current withholding by 10%. That is a huge difference, one that comes out to a negligible amount. And, if you don’t like it, change your W4 to reduce the amount withheld!
dooooood—- the unfunded liability part is an actuarial term here— of course it’s NOW unfunded—– but over time the system has worked….of course in slow times it goes down— vis— last year calpers took in about 10b from investments and contributions from employees and paid out 11 b— of course they had a bad year but all pensions did— in fact all of the global economy did— the ship of state at Calpers is solid—- 200b baby— relax
yes, payroll obligations = liabilities. they must also have revenues = taxes to pay for them. it’s simple math, addition and subtraction. or as Miss Teen South Carolina might say, plusses and minuses.
sorry I meant to say pensions, not payroll. though payroll is also a piece of the equation when these guys double-dip like mad. you shouldn’t be able to collect both, you should be limited to make like $10,000 a year when drawing these fat pensions, and anything above that your pension gets reduced by that amount!
Wrong— these are mostly paid by the investments and contributions…. yikes the rumors are flying!
I agree– no ones biz
what a pathetic little “newspaper”, hows chapter 11 going?
Wow bitter much? Oh noes a newspaper is doing a series of reports on bloated public pensions.
Yes, but these “examples” are the exception rather than the rule. As the article itself states, the average CalPERS pension $15,948 a year. It’s called sensationalism and is intended to incite rather than solve the problem.
The “average” calpers pension during the last 10 years is over $50K, and the overall average is not $15K, it is $34K.
johnny blaze just makes up the facts—sad
Cite your source.
i agree this is pathetic leave the retired folks alone…
if they would just retire already, or go join the private sector, we probably would.
Check out Newport Beach and all the “Retired” people double dipping right now…it will make your hair stand on end.
yes, what these raw numbers don’t even tell us is how many of them are “retired” yet still working, drawing a salary! incredibly frustrating stuff
So tell me; if you worked for IBM for 30 years, retired, started drawing on your 401K and then went to work again as a consultant to supplement your income, would that be OK?
If you say “yes”, then explain why it should be different for government workers.
45yrsinoc says:
So tell me; if you worked for IBM for 30 years,
==========================
If you “worked” for IBM or any other private company for a short 30 years you would never be able to “retire”. Nice try 45
Why do you think I said “work again as a consultant”? The point is, there is no valid reason why a person shouldn’t reyire and then go back to work to supplement their income, regardless of where their pension or retirement income comes from.
Unless of course you factor in the unreasoning and irrational bias many here have displayed towards government workers as a whole. They aren’t looking for reform; they’re looking for revenge based on personal animosity.
who cares qwerty?? retired and still helping out? More power to em! You need to chill out!
Why is the Watchdog picking on these pensioners? For the work these officials do, they have earned their pension. The pension payments are less than what they earned while they were working. If you want to pick on someone, pick on our Board os Supervisors’s pension. They can stay in for one term and get a heftier pension and perks.
they’re ALL BAD. you present a farcical argument, trying to divert by saying BOS are worse. well sure they’re bad too and their pensions need to be controlled, though there are only 5 of them working at any given time, while there are thousands of CalPERS big fat pensioners.
the real question that needs to be answered is why the BOS need so many hired assistants. that’s the real boondoggle there.
I agree– I can’t think of a valid reason the ocr is on this so hard when you consider the caveats even they published after the piece and when you consider that calpers has rebounded 43% since the 08 losses???? They have done very well over time and these pensions assist in getting good people to serve the public— very strange indeed. I understand all the anti-gov trolls out here but the register—- even though it is a small paper it did used to be pretty responsible…
I agree move on to something real….this is dumb and a bit offensive of an article…
ocearules says:
Why is the Watchdog picking on these pensioners? For the work these officials do, they have earned their pension.
=============================
Oh Brother…..Hey Pinnichio, your nose grew 40 feert with that whopper!
Lmao…no s..t
Thanks again, Teri Sforza. You are doing what newspapers should do. Expose government activity to preclude tyranny. We already see the 2-tiered working system in America with the gobblement employees in the catbird’s seat while the ones who actually contribute to the GDP that fund their fat salaries and pensions down below to catch their droppings. If not for your folks it would be full-blown indentured servitude. Keep up the fine work. You are worth much more than you’re getting paid. You actually generate change. God bless you!
Ten years ago everyone I knew in the provate sector was making big bonuses and getting stock options. They thought I was nuts for not leaving LA County to go out and make the “big bucks”.
Now that the private sector, particularly the big financial corporations and banks, have screwed up the economy everybody up in arms because government workers aren’t suffering as much as they feel they should. I guess we’re supposed to feel guilty for not jumping on the bandwagon with the rest of the opportunists. Well, I don’t. I’m going to put in my 40 years and then retire. And I won’t feel a shred of guilt because all you “taxpayers” have gotten more than your money’s worth from me.
But don’t worry; I’ll break out my violin and play something suitably morose for all of you.
you’d better move that retirement up, 45yrsinoc. if you got more than 3 years to go you’re going to get caught holding the bag. you need to read the financial news once in awhile. Old Will Rogers once said - “Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects” hah. Go buy a book on the economic future of america. Just make sure it’s not written by a trough feeder.
wrong again oc—–owned as usual…
I have 6 years to go and I’m really not worried. Only a fraction of my retirement income will come from CalPERS. The majority will be from LACEARA and they’re in good shape (no 3% @ 50 in LA County, even for safety plans). Besides, I can always get a consulting contract to the tune of about $100-$150 per hour after I retire if I need some extra income.
I also have almost $500K in investments, savings and deferred compensation that I expect will increase quite a bit as the economy recovers, so I expect I’ll be OK.
But your “concern” is touching.
OC
LOL
Still the same “the sky is falling” story. How long have you been saying “in (fill in whatever number comes to mind) years you will all lose everything”
Your story is getting old as is your disdain for all that is law enforcement.
You are truley a clown!!
government is the one enabling the banks you hold in such low disregard, and charging it back to the taxpayers for the privilege of having a few select megacorporations at the top of the banking foodchain.
The Bush administartion pumps bilions of dollars of TARP funds into these “institutions”, which they then use to pay bonuses, apparently for losing money. Then the Obama administration blows hundreds of billions more dollars propping up these “too big to fail” companies, while the Fed holds down interests rates in order to give them essentially free funding, while those of us trying to save money are earning diddly.
And folks like Johnny Blaze and ocobserver are outraged because a small percentage of CalPERS retirees are pulling in more than $100K per year. Now there’s a great ordering of priorities for you.
45yrsinoc says:
The Bush administartion pumps bilions of dollars of TARP funds into these “institutions”, which they then use to pay bonuses, apparently for losing money. Then the Obama administration blows hundreds of billions more dollars propping up these “too big to fail” companies, while the Fed holds down interests rates in order to give them essentially free funding, while those of us trying to save money are earning diddly.
And folks like Johnny Blaze and ocobserver are outraged because a small percentage of CalPERS retirees are pulling in more than $100K per year. Now there’s a great ordering of priorities for you.
=========================
And your point is what?? That TWO WRONGS now make a right??????
BTW-the bailout of Wall Street is going to be a blip compared to the bailout of the torugh feeders-but since there is no money left there will be no trough feeder bail out.
45yrsinoc says:
Ten years ago everyone I knew in the provate sector was making big bonuses and getting stock options.
======================
That is a bald faced lie.
NO ONE in the private sector gets “big bounuses” or “stock options” except a handful of upper management, MAYBE 1%, or less.
Stop the lies 45! Gov trough feeders have been making MORE than the private sector for the last 10 years, now it is double.
jblaze says,
That is a bald faced lie.
“NO ONE in the private sector gets “big bounuses” or “stock options” except a handful of upper management, MAYBE 1%, or less”
=====================================================
hah, in other words the same can be said about how many receive these 100k pensions in the public sector… and this is fact so who’s the liar nimrod!!! lol
Yes, thanks Teri Sforza for your due diligence. I can see you are starting to have an impact on the takers because now more are in fear that action will take place to cut these obscene pay, pensions and benefits.
Teri— seriously—- the biased and sort of misleading series is a drag…..
The state can NOT declare bancruptcy. Do your homework.
observer - those are not “COPS” collecting that much. They are chiefs and captains who hardly do any cop work. They shouldn’t be able to retire with any higher pay than the street cops they supervise!
I’m sure the system will be restructured soon to something more reasonable.
When that “logic” is applied to corporate CEO’s and their ilk, I’ll start buying into it. The ratio of their salary to their average worker pay is around 400:1, even when their companies were tanking and losing money. And let’s not even get into THEIR retirement packages.
Cops and FF’s are not Fortune 400 CEO’s
Hah.
Get over yourself!
You’re right, cops and firefighters do a service to the public. The Fortune 500 CEOs just steal money from everyone and pretend like they’re the gods of the world.
god ocobs– everybody out here owns you—- go away loser…
Look who’s talking. And police chiefs are not just “cops”. They’re executives with responsibilities than directly impact the lives of the citizens they server. They have much more to deal with than most of these over-paid and papmered CEO’s and others.
I’m curious; exactly what experience do you have to form the foundation for your overly-extreme and prejudiced rants regarding LE and firefighters? I’m willing to bet you’ve never worked for either. If so, your information is likely second-hand and IMO worth less than a daily edition of the OCR. (I could have been harsher and used their stock price for comparison).
I’m curious; exactly what experience do you have to form the foundation for your overly-extreme and prejudiced rants regarding LE and firefighters?
============================
You mean the GED educated LE and ff jobs????
Please…
Any “restructuring” won’t impact any of the pensions the OCR has so thoughtfully exploited for their own purposes. It will be applied to new employees and will not impact existing employees or retirees.
But don’t worry, you can always go home and kick your dog if it will make you feel better.
i bet there are a few dog kickers out here…
Rico,
Just wondering; what experience do you have in “police work” that gives you the expertise to make your comment? And besides, these chiefs had to put in their time on the streets before they could get promoted. BTW - Chiefs and captains don’t “supervise” street cops; that’s what sergeants are for.
I can only tell you that as a taxpayer I see who is doing the work on the streets. The guys safe behind a desk don’t deserve as much of my tax dollars as the ones in danger, they deserve less. I know that’s not how it works - but that is how I feel.
And based on your limited experience, that’s an understandable feeling. But as someone that worked for LASD for 8 years as a civilian employee, I can tell you that government executives are the same as those in the private sector. Some work hard, some don’t. Some are dedicated, ethical managers and others are not.
So my advice is to reserve judgement and take each on a case-by-case basis. Judging a whole group based on the actions of one individual is inherently wrong.
Rico says:
The state can NOT declare bancruptcy. Do your homework.
=============================
The state doesn’t NEED to declare bankruptcy-they simply just don’t have to pay, and there is no one that can MAKE them pay either-in state or federal court- under the 11th Amendment.
You need to do your homework.
This is a disgusting witch hunt. They earned their pay like everyone else involved in CalPERS.
While we’re calling people out for the heinous crime of receiving retirement pensions, I’m OUTRAGED that people can actually invest in their retirement! Why, they’re nothing but a bunch of good-for-nothing lazy retirees!
Double-dipping is not an issue. What money someone receives from one pension has no bearing whatsoever on a pension earned through another system, as it shouldn’t. It’s the same exact thing as hopping from job to job paying into multiple 401K plans (401K plans though, talk about a scam to get companies out of paying for retirement as much as they used to) and then receiving that money from multiple sources when you retire.
Changing jobs in the same company does not result in a new 401k.
The govt workers are working for state govt regardless whether it is city/county, whatever. It is the same employer, same funding source - the taxpayer.
Double dipping is another greedy Union scam to rip off the taxpayer.
Have you ever taken a basic civics course? Obviously not if you think that the state government and the city/county government are “the same thing”. They are both levels of government, but not the same institute, and do not draw from the same income stream (outside of perhaps state payments to the local level). Furthermore, they are different retirement systems. CalPERS maxes out at a certain level as do all of the individual pension systems.
Exactly. I worked for the State of CA from 1972 - 1987. I left after fifteen years, having vested in CalPERS. I will draw a small (less than $1k/month) from CalPERS when I retire in 2016.
I started working for LA County in 1990; they have their own retirement plan (LACERA). When I retire in 2016 I will have 25 years service and draw a pension of about 54%.
The state government is completely seperate and distinct from county/municipal governments. Some, such as Riverside County and the city od Pomona, use PERS for their retirement plan. Others have their own.
But then I’ve noted that many of those posting here have their “facts” wrong or have cherry-picked those that support them while disregarding anything that contradicts their claims.
45yrsinoc says:
Exactly. I worked for the State of CA from 1972 - 1987.
======================
Jeeze 45-how old are you, gramps is posting
How can you NOY be reitred, you have to be at least 60.
Thanks for show casing the bureaucracy and waste in the govt “civics” business model.
I work for a multi national conglomerate comprised many divisions, sub-divisions, affiliates, etc. and we all have one 401k plan.
Seems to me we could save a ton of tax payer money consolidating all these govt agencies.
But that would mean job and pension cuts.
We can’t have that.
45yrsinoc says:
Exactly. I worked for the State of CA from 1972 - 1987.
======================
Jeeze 45-how old are you, gramps is posting
How can you NOY be reitred, you have to be at least 60.
———————————————————————————————-
Well, I moved to HB when I was 10. I’ll retire at 62 with a total of 40 years, 15 with CalPERS (state of CA) and 25 with LACEARA (LA County). I went back to Cal Poly Pomona for a B.S. in CIS in 1987 for 3 years. As I said before, I believe I will have earned my pension.
@JB
BTW - I did become a grampa when my first geandson was born May 29th of this year.
Another good reason for my pension.
wow Mike, talk about clouding the issue. you’re so far off, I’m surprised you know which way is up. do you walk on the ceiling too?
obviously spoken like someone who has never worked outside of government.
you can only have one 401k (or similar plan) or IRA (if no 401k) that you contribute to, at a time. though a Roth IRA (after tax funds) is also allowed. you’re not even allowed to contribute to a 401k on your own, they come directly from payroll only.
I’m self-employed and make a good living for myself, thank you very much. I’ve never taken a government job, not because I don’t want to, but because I have found I make more money working for myself.
You may only be able to contribute to a single 401K at a time through your employer, but you can indeed have multiple funds if you quit at one employer and work for another. I see it all the time. You also can’t pay into multiple government pension plans at the same time as well.
Not to mention those companies that “encouraged” employees to pack their 401K’s with company stock (Cisco was big on that). Talk about self-serving.
I agree Mike— this is disgusting and I feel very bad for this newspaper…what a journo low——
Yes, please let us see the pensions and compensation for our board of supervisors and every city council member. OCR???
“We know that many public employees pay into their retirement funds — but that many cities and special districts pay the employee contribution, as well as the employer contribution.”
SO, a much more fruitful expose would be about the entities that do NOT require the employees to contribute. I have been contributing to PERS for decades and certainly feel entitled to benefits I have earned and paid for.
One thing that the OCR and those of you not in public employment do not understand: It is cheaper for a public entity to pay an employee’s retirement contribution than it is to give an increase in salary.
SEESAW says:
One thing that the OCR and those of you not in public employment do not understand: It is cheaper for a public entity to pay an employee’s retirement contribution than it is to give an increase in salary
===========================
My Gawd-only a GED educated Gov idiot would make such a stoooooopid statement like this.
Seriously, you just outed yourself as a GED reject with that post.
Did you even make it out of 8th grade junior?
I was a junior college graduate, and my statement is not stupid. I worked a long time in the public sector, which you evidently did not. In many cases, public employees have had their CalPERS payments paid by the employers because it is cheaper in the long run than giving a salary increase. I was a beneficiary of such years ago.
Hard hearted—- there is alot that teri does not understand.
One first has to have the desire to understand something. Teri is only concerned with her career. Maybe she’s hoping for a gig with TMZ or the National Enquirer.
condescend all you want. This isn’t National Enquirer news.
Current pensions are NOT the responsibility of taxpayers - the money comes from PERS and there’s plenty there to last the life expectancies of these folks.
Employer contributions are affected only by benefits for current employees and current investment returns and there shjould be a focus on that, I agree. But misinformation and witch hunts don’t further the bigger goal of controlling compensation and therefore spending obligations.
And by the way, the state cannot file bankruptcy…I always see that suggested but it isn’t an option - only local governments can do that.
ace wrote:
“Current pensions are NOT the responsibility of taxpayers - the money comes from PERS and there’s plenty there to last the life expectancies of these folks”
I don’t know where you clowns come up with this stuff. Public safety is fully funded by the taxpayer. And the payout is supposedly guaranteed by the taxpayer. Even for non-public safety, after about 5 years into retirement their payout FULLY consists of taxpayer contributions. Why do you continue to post this misinformation? The second time you post it, it becomes an outright lie.
Ocobserver, these jokers are not coming up with anything other than the talking points of their union.
All their crap about being funded is nothing but propaganda. The same propaganda they use at every public meeting when thet stagger their speakers to drown out any private citizen that is in opposition to their schemes.
The state is broke, the counties are broke and the cities are broke. Yet these narcissistic Pavloian zombies still are spewing their lies and demanding their cake.
Power corrupts and government union power corrupts absolutely!
Wrong; I’m not in a union. I’m an exempt, salaried employee. Talk about jokers, you folks have been preaching the same tired lines after every one of these articles.
You couldn’t perform at my level if you were paid twice as much as I am, so I assign zero credibility to any of your stereotypes and baloney. But if you think you’re up top it, let me know and I’ll send you a quiz to see how smart you really are.
Here’s a hint: If you don’t know what the following means, don’t bother to respond.
# odmget -q name=fc0 CuDv |grep parent
or how about
# crfs -v jfs2 -d lvdata03 -m /ora/ecp1/data03 -p rw -A yes -a agblksize=4096
The truth is still the truth no matter how many times it is repeated!
Now solve that quiz.
We do not have to respond to the thieving ways of government, but we have no choice if we want to keep our grandchildren from being slaves to your pensions adnd greed.
oc obs— wow— wrong again— you miss the facts AND the math— the money for the pensions is almost all paid out of the pension investments and contributions— last year pers paid out 11 b and 10b came from the fund— stop the lies
To be fair to OBO, ignorance isn’t exactly the same as lying.
chris says:
oc obs— wow— wrong again— you miss the facts AND the math— the money for the pensions is almost all paid out of the pension investments and contributions
==========================
Oh brother-here we go again with the WHOPPER claims.
Chris, you are a MORON.
Calpers is going BROKE, it is only 65% funded, and you make that BS claim that ALL the pay out is coming from a broke fund??
That GED of yours is showing again.
You gov clowns are dumber than a bag of rocks-swear!
ace = ignorant trough feeder
Those are some of the most ludicrous remarks I have ever read. The tax payers pay for most of these pensions and 100% guarantee them…so yes the tax payers should be very concerned about these obscene pensions.
Wherestherbeef, you should be careful using the word ignorant. If you were to do a littel research you would know that over time (or on average) the employee pays about 12% of their retirement, the employer pas about 13% and the remaining 75% comes from the earning that PERS and made over the years.
While there is room for some reforms, it would be stupid to throw the baby out with the bathwater. PERS is one of the most successful retirement programs ever and we should be using it as model for other retirement systems both public and private.
If we want to fix things we should start with the social security system which is 100% pay as you go and then we should require that organizations (private as well as public) put retirement funds into a separate protected accounts so when they go bankrupt (Enron, Worldcom, . . .) employees get to keep what retirement they have and retirees don’t end up going down with the ship too.
Let’s dissect your little argument:
12% worker contribution…let’s not forget all the years when it was zero because the economy was doing so well. And what rate do safety workers pay in?
13% paid by employer. Where do you think that money comes from. I’ll give you a hint…the tax payer.
75% from earnings. The initial principle was mostly tax payer money. And with PERS 2.4% return the last decade…the pension plan isn’t sustainable.
Reform is on the way.
wrong– the fund pays NOT the taxpayer— what a lie! And you tolls need to do a better job out here answering these comments— you are way behind!
chris says:
wrong– the fund pays NOT the taxpayer— what a lie! And you tolls need to do a better job out here answering these comments— you are way behind!
======================
Warning: GED MORON ALERT!
$100,000 a year pensions for Chiefs,City managers etc.,I dont know about all you folks in cyberspace but that amount in O.C. is barely middleclass.
I agree. $100k isn’t much to live on in OC or most of CA for that matter. The smart pensioners are taking that money and moving out of state where they can live like royalty on $100k a year.
And be away from nosy reporters as well.
Median household income in Orange County is around $60k per the 2000 census. So perhaps that’s $65-75k now. $100K for just one income is already well on the way to upper middle class. And, keep in mind, we’re talking a pension here, not payroll. I bet the median pensioner income is a LOT lower, perhaps a quarter or a third of $100k.
dave 39 wrote:
“$100,000 a year pensions for Chiefs,City managers etc.,I dont know about all you folks in cyberspace but that amount in O.C. is barely middleclass”
$100k pensions are “barely middleclass”??? What percent of OC citizens get to sit on their oversized behinds and collect a $100k pension at 55 for not even turning a wheel for the rest of their natural lives??? 2%?? That’s “barely middle class”? hah! Man, you gotta lay off that sensimilla!
maybe these guys earned it and negotiated it from the reps you elected ocobs…. you need a civics lesson……and by the way—- do you use gov services? Maybe not— There are no taxes in Somalia pal– you’d like it!
chris says:
maybe these guys earned it and negotiated it from the reps you elected ocobs
====================
Warning: Trough Feeder ALERT!!
They were all retroactive, not “earned”, how many times do I need to publicly spank you chris????
well Dave39, let’s all give them a gajillion dollars then. maybe that will make the public employees retiring at 55 happy.
Dave39 says:
$100,000 a year pensions for Chiefs,City managers etc.,I dont know about all you folks in cyberspace but that amount in O.C. is barely middleclass.
===============
Wow, another trough feeder with the $100K per year is not that much line!!!
it never ends with you clowns.
Average income on OC is $43K per year Junior Einstein. And that is WORKING income, not “retirement” income at age 50.
Everyone here who is complaining about these pensions and so called double dipping would not be complaining if you were on the receiving end of the pension(s)
You are all secretly kicking yourselves for going to work in the private sector and not preparing for your own retirement.
Maybe in your next life you will do thing differently.
The job I do in the public sector pays about 85k per year. If I were working for a private company it would pay about 110k per year. I wonder how many of those private sector guys making 110K per year are putting away 25K per year towards retirement? If they did they would have a nice retirement like me. But I doubt they did, they spent the extra money on luxuries that I did not have and are now complaining about my retirement. I haven’t complained that you’ve made 20% more than I have for the past 20 years for the same job, I enjoyed my modest life and have comfort in the fact that I have built a retirement.
Nice post. Interesting the OCR is taking the easy way out on this issue. Where were they when the OC subprime industry was helping destroy the economy? See any OCR articles on overpaid CEO’s shipping jobs out of the country while screwing over their customers and shareholders? Where was their investigative reporting then?
45yrsinoc says:
You nailed it! I also worked for the public sector at a pay level 20%-30% below what my peers were making in the private sector in IT. That margin is even higher if you include their bonuses and stock options.
===================
Wrong 45-your GED in the real world would pay minimum wage, not the $200K per year GED cops/firewhiners get.
You’re making about 20 times MORE in gov with your GED.
go Johnny go! James Brown lives on. LOL!
My GED??? I graduated cum laude with B.S. in Computer Information Systems. Another indication of the “quality research and fact-checking” performed by JB, GR.
You nailed it! I also worked for the public sector at a pay level 20%-30% below what my peers were making in the private sector in IT. That margin is even higher if you include their bonuses and stock options.
I stuck with LA County and drove Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys while my friends drove BMW’s and Porsches. Now that they’ve been laid off, the mortgages on their million-dollar homes are underwater and they’ve had their cars repossesed, I’m supposed to feel sorry for them?
Ain’t gonna happen. I went out and bought an Infiniti instead.
no, I don’t feel sorry for those friends of yours either. they should have known better. however, pretty interesting that public employees never seem to get laid off, even when there’s clearly less work?
I mean, even the Angels ( who had like 3.2 million customers last year and made plenty of money ) laid off two positions in their front office over the weekend. surely the perennial insolvent county or broke state of CA could eliminate one or two positions.
I know that LA County laid off hundreds of workers in the mid-90’s and implemented cascade demotions as well on most departments. And I expect that they might do so again in the coming year as the impact of the state’s cuts hit.
I won’t get impacted; I’m one of only three AIX systems administrators in our depatrment and one of the three is a contractor. If they lay me off they’d have to find a contractor to manage the LA County ERP application as well as several other critical systems. That would run them around $100 - $120 per hour.
Johhny Blaze, Ghost Rider wrote:
Now I know you’re lying (BIG surprise there). No one gets into NYU with a GED.
You can’t get away with those whoppers here 45, just won’t cut it.
————————————————————————————–
Maybe her first getting admitted to Barnard and then transferring to NYU was her answer. Regardless, you can name-call all you want but it doesn’t change the facts.
Maybe your fixation on GED’s has to do with your having failed to earn one? Just guessing.
45yrsinoc,
it takes more than a GED to work IT.
Get over yourself!
I graduated cumme laude from Cal Poly Pomona with a B.S. degree in Computer Information Systems and I have 20 years of IT experience. I make nearly $140K per year and have turned down higher-paying jobs in the private sector.
The only GED in my family was earned by my niece when she was 16 years old. She graduated NYU three years later, went to school and passed the Califormia State Bar exam at age 24. How’s that for GED?
Don’t talk smack if you can’t back it up!
observer: you should whine less and go get a job. You complain about taking a 30% paycut, and your 401K losing value. You could do better if you got off your can and worked a job. Making money is more productive versus blogging all day complaining about working people. You are a broken record and a clown.
The only GED in my family was earned by my niece when she was 16 years old. She graduated NYU three years later, went to school and passed the Califormia State Bar exam at age 24. How’s that for GED?
==================
Now I know you’re lying (BIG surprise there). No one gets into NYU with a GED.
You can’t get away with those whoppers here 45, just won’t cut it.
MOORLACH SUCKS says:
observer: you should whine less and go get a job. You complain about taking a 30% paycut, and your 401K losing value. You could do better if you got off your can and worked a job. Making money is more productive versus blogging all day complaining about working people.
=======================
I think you just described 90% of the gov workforce.
Your neighbor…you are another trough feeder who is bad at math. Your 25K extra for working in the private sector would be about 15K after taxes. Add in your obscene pension and other perks (job security, cadillac healthcare, every holiday off known to man) and you have the far better deal.
Don’t even argue with that because you can’t!
First off the 25K would not be 15k it would be 25k. Money put into an IRA comes out of your check prior to taxes.
Job security is pretty good, but they did lay off 300 social workers from the County of Orange just this year, the DA’s office has furloughed (sp?) all it’s employees 1 day a month, that is equal to terminating 5% of the workers.
Cadillac healthcare? I have HMO Aetna just like you nothing better.
Yes holidays off, can’t argue there.
Nice try beef.
What kind of stupid logic are using? If a private sector worker makes 25K more gross (that’s about 15K net after taxes). Where did the IRA logic come from.
Job securtiy…the 300 social workers, cry me a river…there are millions of people in the private sector who lost their jobs in case you haven’t been keeping up with current events.
You trough feeders have good deals. I don’t want to hear the old excuse, you private sector people made a fortune selling houses and working at mortgage companies. Most of us have normal jobs that are disappearing at alarming rates and don’t have any of the perks you guys do.
wheresthebeef:
If you stopped for a second and read what I originaly wrote, I said that if the private sector worker took their extra 25K and invested it in their retirement they would have a very nice retirement. You with your “stupid logic” made it what you wanted it to be.
You mentioned job security, I don’t disagree, but I did want to inform you that there is no absolute security and I gave an example of the social workers.
You are one of those people I mentioned in my first post. You are upset that you didn’t chose to work for a public entity at about a 20-30% pay decrease from the private job you have had.
I have given up 20-30% of my earning potential in lieu of a retirement plan. I hope you have done the same.
If you think that I don’t work for a living and that I only feed from the trough then you are just a miserable soul.
Your Neighbor says:
First off the 25K would not be 15k it would be 25k. Money put into an IRA comes out of your check prior to taxes.
Job security is pretty good, but they did lay off 300 social workers from the County of Orange just this year, the DA’s office has furloughed (sp?) all it’s employees 1 day a month, that is equal to terminating 5% of the workers.
========================
Gov employment has GROWN, private sector employment has not grown, even 1%, in the last 10 years (see BusinessWeek),.
Wages have gone DOWN in the private sector-gov employees see 3-8% COLA’s every year.
True enuf—- ocobs maybe you and donkey should’ve saved a bit better?
sour grapes pathetic
chris says:
True enuf—- ocobs maybe you and donkey should’ve saved a bit better?
sour grapes pathetic
===============
Warning: TROUGH FEEDER ALERT!
Perhaps the OCR should write all of the facts when they write these stories. Of course that would take the sensationalism away, right OCR?
The PERS pension fund receives revenue from employee and employer contribution as well as investments. Depending on how the investments are doing, the amount the employer contributes will vary. The employee always contributes the same percentage. In 2000, the employer (taxpayer) contibution was zero since investments were doing well. In fact, PERS was doing so well that was when the 3% at 50 formula was introduced. Many employees agreed to pay a portion of the employers contribution in order to have the new retirement formula.
If the taxpayer is not being asked to pay more, why is the amount of a pension a concern? Sensationalism.
Everyone is upset because after not needing any taxpayer money during the good years, CalPERS is expecting to need taxpayer money to offset losses. But since apparently none of these folks actually use any government services, they’re outraged that they’re expected to pay for them. Makes perfect sense to me. (/sarcasm).
our officials are terrible planning as usual. we should pay them appropriately.
(terrible AT planning)
that is correct Mr. Huckleberry!
Mauk you!
Like public employee pensions, Social Security is also a “contract.” Yet, citing dire financial straits, the state of California has systematically reduced its share of SSI payments.
If the state can indiscriminately reduce Social Security payments, and the federal government can freeze cost of living increases and raise copayments at will, why can’t something be done about excessive and overly generous public pensions, and double- or triple-dipping?
Social Security recipients are lucky to get crumbs that fall through the cracks, while the public pension system has become an entitlement for the six-figure salary set and privileged elite that will bankrupt state and local government. The double standard is an example of the “golden rule”: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Too many vested interests have their hand in the public pension cookie jar. Is anybody surprised that no one will lift a finger to change this clear abuse of the public trust?
Richard,
Be patient. The tide is turning. It’s already evident. One major event like a bond market dislocation and watch how fast the rules change.
Oh, I know. Ntheco says that’s not possible. He thinks we can continue to run $1.6 trillion dollar deficits and monetize our debt without any consequences. Why do you think Obama is bowing before the Chinese. I saw his picture on-line bowing. He went so low I thought he was going to scrap his nose on the cement! hah!
lol oc—- you are a fool— but i love ya!
I see OCOBS is here again posting his lies. He likes to think he knows about the economy and investments, but he shorted Ford and PDLI back in February.
Right, OCOBS? You ready to cover that short position in January like we agreed? I’m still holding!
lol - PERS is party funded by the EMPLOYEE, don’t let ocobs fool you. The employer contribution does vary but your local government budgets are structured to compensate for that.
The earlier poster was correct, PERS was superfunded and it will be again.
Chicken little has yet to be correct.
be careful with the truth and factual comments thunder,observer might snap!!!!!lol
ntheoc says:
be careful with the truth and factual comments thunder,observer might snap!!!!!lol
=================
Pipe down trough feeder
The average CalPERS pensioner collects just $15,948 a year.
the average pension? –no one cares about that stat– they love this disgusting witch hunt——
That includes people who worked for the state barely long enough to qualify. Now, if you took the average career state employee…I’m sure it would be much, much higher.
And it’s funny how none of you clowns mention the pension giveaways of the last ten years (3@50 and almost every other entity increasing their pension payout). When these people retire in mass, the average number that you like quoting will go through the roof. Have fun cashing those pension IOUs.
the avg pension is 15k— average—- you do the math dumbell…
The 3% @ 50 was OCERS, not CalPERS. Even I think that was a dumb move, especially making it retroactive.
whoever approved that needs to have their head examined and go on early retirement immediately, with whatever they’ve accrued. it was the BOS - correct?
Bill, you have to remember that CalPers includes police and fire. Do you really want to see 65 year old cops going to your house to look for a bad guy after he broke into your house? Either do I. And it does not matter if you are a street cop or supervisor. It is real simple; The more you make, the more you retire with. It is not CalPers retirees fault that people decided to be greedy and make fast money in the housing market and now they have nothing. And yes I’m a CalPers member and yes I will retire with a lot of money at an early age, where my wife and I can travel thanks to tax payers.
Thank you and everyone who works for the state/local agencies for serving our communities. Don’t listen to people who say that you are “leeching” off the taxpayers when they’re the first people who will run to you when they really need the help.
As has been stated before, CalPERS does have a targeted benefit amount that makes people who pay in pay the entire amount during good times in the market, and steps in when the market isn’t doing so hot. Indeed, when the market was doing great, employees paid most of even the employer contribution. Of course, when the market was doing great, everyone who went into the public sector got laughed at since they were obviously “fools” to not take the larger pay.
That’s correct—- when it’s rough in the market it’s time to attack the guy who paves our road or delivers the mail— been going on forever….sad to see the Register has become so biased against the little guy and as even they say…and I quote from the article above…”the average gov. pension is 15k per year” — shame on you ocr
You are a greedy pig with a serous sense of entitlement. Yes, I do want to see 65 year old cops still working. They can sit behind a desk or teach younger cops, they don’t need to be chasing people through alleys.
And don’t forget one second that it was your corrupt union that strongarmed corrupt politicians into gifting you these ludicrous pensions. Most other states don’t give the farm away with these pensions…why not…because they are not fair and unsustainable.
Have fun cashing the IOUs.
runaway says:
Bill, you have to remember that CalPers includes police and fire. Do you really want to see 65 year old cops going to your house to look for a bad guy after he broke into your house
=====================
Oh, you poor little old trough feeder, do you think you can be a crossing guard??? Or receptionist? Or information guide??
Ill find something for your old, sagging GED butt to do.
Hey Johnny Blaze, aka Johnny Vegass is back. How you been big fella.
Employees that are in PERS can buy up to 7 years more in retirement benefits. Nobody has covered this little (buy-back) secret.
yes that’s right and they get free medical forever for all thier relatives and anyone they name as a friend…and they get free ocean front homes and huge bonuses every year as well as courtside Lakers seats—- let’s go get them!!!
Don’t forget their access to the CalPERS corporate jet! LOL
I thought it was only 5 years? However many years it is the employee pays the full amount - there is no cost match by the employer. As I stated above on average the employee pays about 12% of their retirement, the employer pays about 13% and the remaining 75% comes from the funds that PERS has earned throught their investments.
The reality is PERS is one of the most successful retirement programs ever and we should be using it as model for other retirement systems both public and private.
If we want to fix things we should start with the real problems such as the social security system which is 100% pay as you go (talk about unfunded liabilities) and then we should require that organizations (private as well as public) put retirement funds into a separate protected accounts so when they go bankrupt (Enron, Worldcom, . . .) employees get to keep what retirement they have and retirees don’t end up losing everything.
Matt— I wish the ocr would go after those ideas– you are right!
What kind of kool aid are you drinking? Is this the same PERS that the actuary said is unsustainable. I don’t think we want this used as the model for any retirement system.
Regarding social security, us unlucky people are FORCED into paying into it whether we like it or not. State workers are not forced into paying into PERS. That’s the big difference. If I could opt out of social security today I would. They can keep every penny I paid into it and not take anything more, and I wouldn’t expect a dime come retirement time.
That’s one actuary’s opinion. I couldn’t figure out what he was basing his conclusions on except the concept of “unfunded liabilities”. It looks to me like one needs to have a all the money needed to pay off a loan sitting in an account somewhere before the loan is made. For example my house would be considered an unfunded liability. If you don’t have the ability to immediately pay off all of you’re debt you have unfunded liabilites and your finances woudl be considered unsustainable.
Government employees pay into PERS because it’s a good system. In the last few decades not one penny of tax dollars has gone into paying retirement payments. State taxpayer dollars only go into paying the matching contribution of exisitng employees. I won’t deny that there is a guarantee there and if we had 10 years in a row of financial crisis like we’ve had the last two years then we would have some real troubles, however, if we had several more years like the last couple, we would have much bigger problems to deal with than retirement payments.
Yea,that’s right. lets disregard the actuaries, along with the taxpayers.
well said Matt— and it was only 1 actuary and has been widely reported— waaaaaaaaay out of context…
“State workers are not forced into paying into PERS.”
YES We ARE forced into paying. On my planet every PERS dollar is taken out of my paycheck INVOLUNTARILY before I see it.
There is no ‘choice’.
Judy their are over 30 ways these public safety workers can spike their pensions and you have named one of them.
It is very expensive, and it a program that has been out in the open for years. It is no secret. So, who should care? It is the employee’s personal funds. It puts more money into the system and pays out more for recipients to put into the revolving economy. In the future, anyone may be allowed to buy into PERS–it has been discussed. But, like I said, it is extremely expensive.
It also depends on the type of agreement a specific entity has with PERS. In my former entity, employees are allowed to purchase time served in the military, but employees who were once uncovered part-timers are not allowed to purchase their past part-time service. Go figure.
Funny you should mention that. My retirement plan (LACERA) also allows me to buy up to 5 years of service. Of course I would have to pay $108,000 for those five years, and I would gain about $10,000 per year when I retired. Not very cost-effective so I declined.
If you’re going to cite “facts”, try to include ALL the relevant ones.
5 years not 7
The government workers are getting worried. You can tell by how many are now spreading the propaganda of their unions.
yeah riiiiiiight—— we love watching you type away troll…..why don’t you go look for a job?
Don’t need a job dummy, I’m retired!
you retired? lol i doubt it troll——
I’m curious - what part(s) do you think is propaganda?
I’ve done some research into retirement systems and I really don’t see many systems that compare to PERS except other large government pension systems (the exception being the compensation packages given to upper managment by other upper management) in providing benefits to the employee without costing the tax payers very much - again look at social security which is all on the public dime.
As an engineer I look at the facts/numbers and draw conclusions from them. Please point out the other systems that are out there that are more financially stable.
What I don’t get is why white and blue collar workers in the private sector want to beat up on the public sector workers when it seems to me the problem lies with the management of organizations. Those who are raking in the big dollars whether they’ve earned it or not and makinging bad management decisions which end up screwing the folks in the trenches (both public an private) while they walk away with millions.
Oh, I’m soooo worried! LOL
Oh, I’m soooo worried! LOL
===================
LOL….. hey, Google Prichard, Alabama
The we can ALL laugh!
JohnnyBlaze, I love how your defense has been reduced to name calling (ie calling us all GED whiners, idiots, etc) and also citing what happened in one podunk town in Alabama. Is it surprising that town went bankrupt??? Not really considering the average home price is probably 100k at best and the median income is probably 25k (not alot of tax revenue there). By the way, I love how you poke fun at GED’ers when a) I don’t know a single person in my department with a GED (everyone has a legit high school diploma or higher) and b) your posts are filled with more spelling and grammar inacuracies than a second grade essay. Your childish name-calling makes you look uneducated and insecure.
One can find ocobservers rants on just about any OCregister blog dealing with police officers and firefighters. He apparently has it in for these two groups above all others. Interesting. He and a few of his disciples repeatedly engage in circular logic in these blogs, and when the logic breaks down, he’ll resort to personal attack agendas… Watch him closely here… you’ll see
Tell me about it. He tried the “GED” line on me and I graduated cumme laude with a B.S. in Computer Information Systems. He’s not one to worry about facts or accuracy. LOL
But he probably has a pretty good shot at getting a talk show on Fox.
He tried the GED line on me too—- after undergrad I got a masters and a JD….
He tried the GED line on me too—- after undergrad I got a masters and a JD….
==================
Yes, you and ALL of the cops and Firewhiners have JD’s, PhD’s and MD’s….. Oh brother!!
Can I call you Pinnochio???
I’m in IT, dummy, not LE or fire. That’s why I make around $130K per year without any supervisory or managerial responsibilities. I’m one of the resident propeller-heads keeping the LA COunty IT systems running.
You ought to make sure you know what you’re talking about before you pop off.
wheresthebeef:
Please do your homework before you type a rant (also slow down and spell check). I’m not a greedy pig, I’m a greedy hose dragger. I don’t want 65 year old people working with me, it’s a safety hazard. And so what do we do when cops turn 50, put them behind a desk for 15 years, accumulating a pool of old people doing nothing earning YOUR tax dollars? Corrupt or not, I’m cashing in big and no they will not be IOU’S. Again do your homework and look at how much money CalPers has.
Fire work only needs to be part-time, it is not necessary to have full time firemen. What a lot of Californians don’t know is that all the big fires are mostly fought by our state prisoners while the highly paid “professional FF” watch.
As far as EMS goes, that can be handled very well by the private sector.
Donk, roger that. I watched that freeway fire on my TV. It was a comedy of errors. I could hardly believe my friggin eyes. Fire trucks driving past homes on fire with the owners in the front yards trying to save what was left with a garden hose. That’s the kinda stuff our taxdollars are paying for. 300 homes burnt to the ground. Better to just disband the fire department. Used the money saved on FF salaries and pensions to buy new homes for the victims. In the end we’d all come out ahead.
As I noted earlier… it wouldn’t take long before the personal attack agendas set in. Watch… he’ll lose control of his bladder again
Truth is… people like OCobserver have no clue what is going on at these big fires. Sure… he “thinks” he knows, but in reality, he’s a frustrated computer warrior 
ocobserver, you need to go get a job big fella to pay for my pension benefits. Like or not, you will be paying for them til your dying day…..you sure my favorite troll ocobserver.
ocobserver—- you have lost the tiny cred you had—- now you look like a loon…..that’s what will happen with all the issues you’ve ranted about out here—–
yessup— watch how your last post spins this troll up—– love it
And where exactly did you gain your “expertise” in firefighting? Watching TV? What’s next, supervising brain surgery at Hoag?
To coin a phrase… get over yourself. LOL
okokok—- that last post from donk and ocobs did it—- NO one buys into that nonsense— wow—- permanently owned— it’s over….type on trolls ;o;
Littleman, I was a member of the USN. As all USN veterans know fire training is of the upmost importance but sailors had other jobs to do also. Sailors were firefighters when needed, it works the same way in the civilian world. Most fire departments in the USA are volunteer and or part-time.
There is really no need for the so called “professional FF” the myth has just become too expensive and the results have proven to be a large group of self-centered hedonists and me, me, ,e crybabies.
donkey sailor=== all I can say about your last post is lollolololol sir you remain a sad clown….
chris says:
okokok—- that last post from donk and ocobs did it—- NO one buys into that nonsense— wow—- permanently owned— it’s over….type on trolls ;o;
=================
Chris, you have been spanked so many times here your butt looks liek your Mom’s hand.
Now go hang your head in shame.
runaway,
I didn’t mean pig as in cop…I meant pig as in wallowing in the slop trough. So even you won’t say there was no corruption going on with these pension shenanigans…you’re just lucky to be on the winning end.
It doesn’t matter how much money Calpers has. The only thing that matters is their unfunded liability. These 50K and up pensions will be common place in the near future…and that is what will sink the ship.
Have fun in your retirement…just be sure to thank the tax payers for your loot.
There’s corruption in EVERY organization, public or private. Any more big revelations?
There’s corruption in EVERY organization, public or private. Any more big revelations?
===========================
Not true.
In the REAL WORLD if there was corruption it would BK the company and it would go bye bye.
Johnny Blaze - do you mean the dozen large financial firms that the federal goverernment just spent billions and billions of dollars bailing out?
Do you EVER read a real newspaper. I mean, any part besides the comics? That’s it; this is like debating a first-grade student. I expect the next response will be something along the lines of “I know you are but what am I”?
I suspect it makes these guys feel better about their utter effective impotence that they vent their bitter tirades here in these blogs. The reality is that neither the Californian masses, nor even significant portions of the Orange County population are bothering to read ANY of this. “People vote no on taxes”. Oh wow… there’s a surprise! Tell them service levels of their fire department and paramedic services are going to drastically decrease because of budget cuts, and you’ll witness a population actively ensuring those resources receive appropriate funding. The ranters here are a noisy gong that nobody’s really listening to. As for OCobserver… I recognize his underlying motives in what he’s doing, but at least he’s remotely clever about it. Donk… sorry…. you and Johnny Vegas are not. You are mere “useful idiots” to OCobserver, whether he admits it or not. Sure he supports what you say… but believe me… despite his anti-government fervor, he’s rolling his eyes at you just like the rest of us
This is not a laughing matter! As you hide in your hole in Idaho the taxpayers of California are about to pull the rug right out from under your compound little guy.
Californians are not going to allow their grandchildren to become economic slaves to your greed and cleaver union tactics.
People are talking on the streets about the pensions you people have cooked for yourselves and they will be renegotiated or removed.
Again, you try to imply that all your detractors are somehow connected to the Calpers retirement system? I am not. Comprehend? I am in no way connected to Calpers. I’m just here because I am amused at your rhetoric which is full of lies and half truths. Donkey… I wish it were not so… but even your own side doesn’t respect you… can’t you see that by now?
and goodness… I’m not even in Idaho…. you just make this stuff up as you go… eh?
Tell them service levels of their fire department and paramedic services are going to drastically decrease because of budget cuts, and you’ll witness a population actively ensuring those resources receive appropriate funding.
—————————————————————————
Dream on. It’s threats like these that have been going on for years with rapid salary/pension increases, along with less productivity and now it’s reared its ugly head. Do you think with all the unemployed, closed businesses, people leaving the state, lost 401k, falling real estate prices etc; people are going to make YOU a priority. FAT CHANCE. To be fair, add to the fact taxpayers have bailed out private businesses to boot. Don’t forget lots of baby boomers are on the rise to retire with plenty of time on their hands to fight greed. When people are facing poverty they become extremely motivated.
JR… I am not in Calpers…. no one needs to make ME a priority
I’ve stated that probably a dozen times now. Including two posts above this. Sheesh! And yup, I think the citizens place public safety as a priority.
My bad. I own it. Changed to THEM. So if you aren’t, then you must be fully informed of: since the early 90’s private companies have increased the workload for their employees annually, to stay afloat; meanwhile the government has grown with less productivity. And now we are facing the reality of it. People aren’t going to throw anymore money into a inefficient system. We saw that on the last ballot and it’s a lot worse now. They can threat all they want, strike even…like every business person in the world, you are replaceable. They’re are many people who would be honored to provide public safety, especially in this economy.
Actually, JR, my understanding is that police and firefighters cannot strike… binding arbitration.. See a big part of my concern is how people on these blogs simply say anything they wish… regardless of the facts.
Look Yessep. We need to clear the air here why the general public is so outraged by these pensions.
We respect what the state workers and safety workers do and you deserve your paycheck.
You deserve good benefits that include healthcare and a pension.
However, when the pensions are so out of whack and unfair, that’s where the line will be drawn. I don’t know if you have kids, but their quality of life in California (if they even stay) will go down because of these pension shenanigans. The general public is now just getting educated on the giveaways that happened in the last 10 years. With state government growing 80% in the last decade, people will start to question what is really going on. And rest assured that the masses in California will not turn a blind eye to this on going crisis.
And then you have your threat that service levels of safety workers will drastically decrease…I agree with that statement if there is a budget cut in services…I do not think services will be affected one bit if there is pension reform.
You guys just need to see the big picture here instead of stamping your feet and pounding your fist on the table and repeating “we deserve our pensions.”
Beef, I’ve said repeatedly that I am in no way connected to this whole Calpers retirement system. It’s not my pension. I agree with you. Our firefighters and police officers deserve their paycheck and good benefits. As far as pensions go, I do think firefighters and police deserve their pensions. I don’t pretend to be an expert in the Calpers system. Could there be some adjustments made? Perhaps. Are such adjustments necessary? Maybe. Are the draconian “fire the bums” comments being made by some amidst these blogs responsible? Absolutely not. I am not making fun of reasonable comments here… I am ridiculing the ridiculous.
Yes, we can see from the posts from ocobserver and donkey, among others, just how much respect they have for public workers.
I’ve stated in several posts that reform is needed to address such areas as government officials convicted of malfeasance in office still getting their pensions, pension-spiking and others. But most of the posts I’ve seen are from those bashing ALL government workers, not to mention those with an obvious hatred for police and firefighters.
And BTW - most of the really dedicated and qualified public employees I’ve worked with chose government service because of the security and pension. If “reform” consists of establishing a 2nd tier for new employees with drastically reduced benefits, all the claims that all of us are “grossly incompetent” will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
But by then I’ll probably be retired and living in Nevada or somewhere else where the cost of living is lower.
45yrs…
Like I told you. You better retire in 3 years or less and take the money and run. If I were you I’d take a lump sum if that’s possible. I’ll tell you why. Our national deficit just passed $12 TRILLION. By the end of next years it’s expected to reach $14 TRILLION. It took from year 1791 to year 2002 for our national deficit to reach $5.9 TRILLION. So in the last 7 years we have more than DOUBLED our deficit. China is looking at this and is going to cut us off. They see where it’s all going. Why do you think that Obama is bowing so low before his overseers in China that his nose is practically scraping the ground??? There is talk of a ‘global currency’ within the NEW world order that will destroy the US dollar. This stuff isn’t tin foil. I am telling you the facts. It’s mathematically unsustainable. We are in unchartered waters, my friend. You can’t continue to spend like drunken russian sailors on port leave as a nation using international credit cards and not suffer serious consequences. Just sayin’. If you think your little pension is secured in a gobblement rathole you are in for one big surprise. Think of me when that day of reckoning strikes!
Like I said, I will not be dependent upon my pensions.
BTW - Obama bowed to the Japanese emperor and empress, not the Chinese. Gives an idea of the accuracy of your other “facts”..
Actually, my position is that with 40 years of dedicated service, I will have “earned” my pension. And I’ll be taking that position to the bank!
Yessup says:
I suspect it makes these guys feel better about their utter effective impotence that they vent their bitter tirades here in these blogs
=========================
Those are BIG words froma GED trough feeder-how did you do it???? Or did Mom help you?
What about your Mom? She must be important to you for you to have made her your avatar.
I been just an observer up till now. “45yrsinoc” Don’t be insulting other posters mothers! I don’t give a crud about your education, pension, savings,your salary, daughter accomplishments …blablabla etc..
How would you like someone here to say your mother is a flea hound? You wouldn’t! Because judging by how old your crusty ass is, i’m sure your mother is dead by now.
How can someone your age that seems to have the dream career, excellent retirement plan, best education, and all around perfect life, be such a bitter, stuck up, old fart.? My father is one of those GED LACERA FF’ers. He gets insane amount pension for only 18 yrs service, retired at 47. I call him the welfare recepient! Those other guys you keep putting down and calling liars, are in fact right about most of what they say. You can’t fool me pal, I exactly how CalPers and LACERA work. You are correct about LACERA being in good shape. But
Chip,
You have a point; my remark in that post was uncalled for and inappropriate. I was over-reacting to the provocations of ocobserver, donkey and their ilk and posted thoughtlessly.
Johnny Blaze, Ghost Writer: I apologize for my comment regarding your mother.
I know it will make little difference to some, but I would just like to comment on the postings about these folks being too dumb to make it in the private sector or having only a GED. I know that 5 of the folks on the Garden Grove list were cops. 3 hold BA’s and 2 hold Masters degrees. Just my 2 bits, that’s all. By the way, can’t we all post opinions without all the name calling?
I am quite sure that the degrees attained by these fine government workers was part of a goal to earn more money based on the union perk of “look I have a degree pay me more.” This is common among government workers, the higher degree you earn,( much of the schooling and time spent in school is paid by the taxpayers), the less resposebility you have and more money you make.
And now donkey has claimed omnipotence, as I can’t think of any other way he could “know” what motivates people he has never met.
What a putz!
I’m still trying to figure out what resposebility is?
And California is expected to have a $21 Billion deficit next year. No wonder.
It will be more like 40 billion REOguy. And that is only the regular budget.
It will be more like 40 billion REOguy. And that is only the regular budget.
======================
Add in the $100 billion Calpers is short and it is $140 BILLION!
Johnny, add the $200 billion in medical and it’s $340 billion!
As long as you’re making up numbers on the fly, why not say a trillion dollars? It sounds so much more dramatic.
I hereby award donkey, Johnny Blaze and ocobserver the “Drama Queen of the Year” award, to be shared equally.
Reported this morning that a state analyst said we are looking at a $21 BILLION state deficit next year DESPITE the tax hikes last February and the budget cuts. hah. Arnold is giving his state of the chaos speech next month. hah. he’s been alluding to going after that ‘high-hanging fruit’ since he’s already picked the low and mid-level hanging fruit. know what that ‘high-hanging fruit’ he’s referring to is?? Yep, those big, fat gobblement pensions. Of course, that additional 10% he’s withholding from your paychecks will NEVER get paid back next April. hah. You are looking at IOU’s once again. And you can’t even use the IOU as toilet paper since it’s only single-ply!!! hah! If you didn’t change your exemption withholding status shame on you!!!
I think I might try typing Hah after sentences to add “dramatic effect”. BTW, OC could you and Donk at least get your budget deficit numbers in sync… you are spotlighting his lack of credibility. See what I mean Donk?
oh no. I agree with donk. Before it’s over the state deficit will hit $40 billion. But the OFFICIAL statement from the Cali State Fiscal Analyst is that we’re looking at AT LEAST a $21 billion dollar deficit next year. If you are a doubting thomas I would he more than happy to post the actual press release. See, you folks don’t understand the quandry that you’re in. You’ve been raised all your life to feel ‘entitled’. And especially those of you in public safety who were somehow deluged into thinking that you are better than all the rest. hah. you’re not. the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker are just as important as you are. Trust me. But you’d better take off those rose-colored glasses. Reality is right around the corner.
Way to cover there ocoberver
ocobserver… assuming you are still posting on here… “right around the corner”, and hopefully still doing so 5 years down the road…. I’ll be here to remind you that police officers and firefighters are still receiving their well deserved pension… and you? You’ll still be chanting… “the day of reckoning is just around the corner!” Doesn’t sound humorously familiar to the guys holding the cardboard signs on the street corners? Ahuh
REPENT!!! REPENT!!!
The same long-term planning that led me to work in the public sector also resulted in my putting at least 30% of my income each year into investments and savings. These were then moved into stable, low-yield investments starting in December of 2007 and of 2008. My losses were less than 5% of my overall portfolio.
I could probably get by without either my CalPERS or my LACERA pension. But I doubt that it will come to that. Regardless, you can huff and puff all you want ocobserver, but I can assure you my house ain’t ccoming down.
Typo - Make that “starting in December of 2007 and early 2008
Get back in your bunker littleman.
Yessup, you don’t live here, you have no right to vote here. In short you are nothing to the people of this state. So go back to eating your Cheetos and watching Oprah.
wow donkey sounds like yessup is really gettin to ya..hah. well you are easy to get to just like your pal brocktonboxer… i ruined him on another thread!!!!!!
He’s sort of Ocobserver’s trained monkey boy
ntheoc, You couldn’t ruin anyone. All you do is the self-serving union propaganda babble. You and your kind would have citizens thrown out into the streets to fund your greedy pensions and benefits.
Like a battered woman who realizes if she doesn’t make a change she will die so to are citizens awakening to the beating you and your unions are putting on them.
That’s becaue the clowns in Sacramento couldn’t pour ater out of a bucket if the directions were written on the bottom. Has nothing to do with CalPERS or any other pension plan.
And as I already stated, I fully expect that LA County will layoff and demote some employees as they did back in 1995. But keeping layoffs to a minimum is IMO the best approach; more unemployed people with no health insurance and drawing unemployment insurance and no longer spending money is NOT going to help the economy.
Please get it through your head: “High hanging fruit” are officials and others that are still employed and have not yet received a pension. If they are laid off, they will still receive a pension in the future if they are vested. The Governor cannot take the pensions–you keep repeating that lie and stating lies should not be what these discussions are about. The term “gobblement” is extremely insulting to people who have worked their entire adult lives to serve the public. Why can’t you hold a dignified discussion about the real problems that we collectively face, instead of insulting others and making yourself look like a complete jerk. As far as the extra withholding is concerned: The Governor is taking some of the tax you would have owed next April, now. The bottom line on your tax form does not change.
The accounting scams being played by both the state and federal governments should be a huge warning to you, seesaw. Like a big fat iceberg on the high seas that your ship is about to collide with. Ever heard of ‘carry trade’ before??? Keeping interest rates at practically 0% until 2012, as reported today. The governator taking ‘temporary loans’ of 10% of earnings from the worker bees and ‘promising’ to pay it back ‘in full’ in April of 2010. hah. And this was after he issued IOU’s last year. And now we learn we’re looking at $20 BILLION plus deficits in Cali in 2010??? You gotta stop watching those Laker games and start thumbing through some financial reports in your spare time, sport. And if you think you’re pensions are rock solid because “The Governor cannot take the pensions” I got a nice plot of land in AZ right on top of an oil field to sell ya! Now listen close….I got a secret for ya, seesaw. As soon as you start seeing some major cities (like Detroit, Philly, Atlanta, etc..) lose their ability to make payroll, you’ll see some states start to fall. And Cali is one of the first in line. Obama can’t bailout everybody. The big corporations simply raided the cookie jar before the rest of them got stiffed.
REPENT!!! REPENT!!! The end is near!!!
Yessup says:
REPENT!!! REPENT!!! The end is near!!!
===========================
TROUGH FEEDER!!…..TROUGH FEEDER!!!
Always sticking their hand in someone elses pocket!
huh?
ohhhnoooooooooo mr bill heeeeelp me the end is near…
The pensions funds do not come from the State. They are protected separately. You are really a “misery loves company” kind of person–you are pretty miserable right now, and you won’t be happy until you see others unhappy too. I feel sorry for your family.
Hey OC,
It’s not 10% of earnings that the Government is taking. You should talk about picking up and reading a financial report.
Why bother…… 10% of earnings LOL. You are a tool.
The Sky is falling and has been falling for how long now OC???
A dignified response from ocobserver? Not likely. I expect he would be delighted to see the state tank and the recession deepen just to lend credibility to his warped sense of right and wrong.
He has no respect for the thousands of decent, hard-working Americans that prvvide the service he uses daily. He’d probably prefer that public agencies go the route of the private sector and hire undocumented workers so they wouldn’t have to pay a decent wage or provide benefits.
He’s the kind of person that would deliberately sink the lifeboat he was in because the other passengers won’t make him captain. To him the term “constructive criticism” is an oxymoron..
hey 45yrs,
observer and his chicken little cronies are still upset Y2K did not pan out for them.hah..lol!
Dear OC Register,
I’m afraid you’re barking up the wrong tree. See these folks have earned their money because they lived up to their side of the contract. If we believe that is too generous, then perhaps we should raise our concerns BEFORE the contracts were signed rather than after. A contract’s a contract.
More importantly, since this is the OC watchdog blog, you should turn your attention and talents to the Wall St bailout which unlike our unfairly maligned pensioners is completely undeserved. Amazing that there isn’t more uproar since their complete and utter failure is being richly rewarded but also the amount of taxpayer money involved is in the TRILLIONS. If we had our priorities in the right place and if there’s any kind of justice in the world, this is where all eyeballs need to be.
Thank You
I hope some ocr worker reads the above post from intel— she is right….
Hear hear! You definitely have injected some “intelligence” into this thread.
A well thought out post… thank you.
tom pel says:
I hope some ocr worker reads the above post from intel— she is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….
===================
There, fixed!
Another example of a stunningly brilliant response from JB, GR. I’ll bet you stayed up all night working on this one. LOL
Intellegencer nails it—- right on the money post…
beef says,
“We respect what the state workers and safety workers do and you deserve your paycheck.
You deserve good benefits that include healthcare and a pension.”
=====================================================
thank you for the kind comment beef, not used to that! thanks!
so beef listen,i
m with ya and i do think some reform is coming just not the type some angry bloggers want.. i believe the pension for public safety is fair and just,it is well deserved and needed for your police and firefighters. this is why we are excluded in the reform initiative. however i really do not see why any other govt entity would need to retire in thier fifties and some reform is needed there. i also am not really for the whole deal of a govt employee retiring then coming back to work another govt job. why retire in the first place! you see beef i am not totally against some type of reform nor the ff demon some have posted……
hey nthoc, you should take that ‘hard hat’ off, more often. lol
hey jr,you should take that “DUNCE HAT” off more often.hah.LOL….
lol you have finally earned my respect.
JR wears a “Hooters” hat!
nthoc;
Thanks for the honest assessment.
This is not about regular pay.
I think PS workers deserve the salaries they earn.
The pension is the issue. It is a massive unfunded cost that is growing. It will cause major financial problems if it is not dealt with.
Politicians don’t want to deal with it. They don’t want to break the news to their constituents (i.e. bottom 2/3 that pay no income taxes) that they will need to start paying for the great services provided by CA PS workers.
Agreed. But I do think anyone should be able to retire whenever they want once they’re vested. But the percentages should be reasonable; you should have to have at least 25-30 years in to get more than 50% of your pay. They could also change the rules so that pensions are based on the average of 3-5 years of your highest pay rather than a single year. That would address the pension-spiking issue.
1) next time the legislature says they are going to deal with pensions don’t believe it because many of those same people are receiving benefits. They are not going to cut off their nose to spite their face.
2) Those at the very top draw a higher salary and therefore a higher % of dollars that must be paid into the system by the state.
3) If the legislature & cities want to negotiate to cap retirements paid to people who are not actually cops on the streets/firefighters fighting fires or as in STRS teachers in the classroom I would vote for that in a heartbeat. In other words you could never receive a pension higher than that of the cop on the beat, the firefighter fighting the fire or a school superintendent. We need to pay well to those who are doing the public work and not those that sit on their behinds and “administrate.” When I have a fire in my home I don’t want you to call the fire chief…I want someone to save my life and I’m willing to pay for that. I’m not willing to pay for the police chief or the city manager to have lunch meetings.
So while the firefighters are out fighting fires, who do you think manages the budget, hires new firefighters, evaluates them and all the other essential administrative tasks you think are so unimportant?
Even empolyee-owned businesses in the private sector understand that there has to be management in a company, not to mention most people prefer jobs with a career path. Why would anyone take a job that offered no possibility of promotion or higher pay?
“I’m willing to pay for that. I’m not willing to pay for the police chief or the city manager to have lunch meetings.”
yep, and not for constantly remodeling their offices either (think Tax Collector Mr. Street)!
Two high rollers in Laguna Beach? Isn’t that a city of a mere 23,000 residents? That is smaller than most neighbors!
And isn’t Spriene the one who directed his force to pass out fliers to the illegal alien day laborers stating something like “You are an important person in our community. We want you to stay here and work and send lots of money home to your loved one.”
Isn’t he also the one who declared that the Mexican consular card is LEGAL ID within the City of Laguna Beach?
Seems to me he is rewarded greatly for overseeing a bunch of cops whose jobs consisted of writing parking tickets and pulling over drunks each weekend.
BUT, he was instrumental in encouraging, aiding and abetting illegal immigration, which has been proven to cost the CA taxpayer BILLIONS each year.
Grandma Brown wrote:
dooooood—- the unfunded liability part is an actuarial term———————————————————————
dooooood; the credit rating agencies and lenders are buying it. CA credit rating is junk. The unfunded $100+ billion pension liability estimated by actuaries is contributing factor.
Wrong– the unfunded liability like the mrtge you owe on your home is NOT part of it… where on earth do all these trolls get there info????
doooood - the mortgage is backed by the home owner’s assets.
What is backing the unfunded pension liability?
The taxpayers!
wrong again clueless—– backed by the pool and workers contributions too– which are big– look at last years stats—- calpers will outlive you amigo….you can’t pay your mtge the house goes to the lien– who? Da bank! please pay attention out here it is time consuming to school you guys.
ocnative says:
nthoc;
“Thanks for the honest assessment.”
=============================
hey i’m all about being honest!! btw you have some good points native…..
Ntheoc gets all excitied anytime the words pay, taxes, fees or increase is mentioned.
donkey wrote,
“Like a battered woman who realizes if she doesn’t make a change she will die so to are citizens awakening to the beating you and your unions are putting on them.”
======================================================
hey donkey speaking of battered woman,my union just had a nice charity dinner 2 weeks ago supporting single moms and a battered womens shelter..also before that i flipped over a thousand pancakes for cancer survivors,especially breast cancer survivors. some still had the disease and my union with some of our members really made there day. i think many of them would like to have a chat with you about how horrible we are! also if you can think about it we are setting up our toy for tots drive and if you could just bring a small gift to any of your local fire stations we appreciate it. i will be volunteering my time to drive a load of toys down to el toro once a week.. thanks donk!
god bless him donkey’s an idiot…
No, but if he works hard he might someday qualify to promote to an idiot.
That’s what you hose pullers specialize in - public relations. Over half your salary and three-quarters of your fat pension is based on image. You go to the schools to brainwash the kids at a young age with the ‘hero image’. hah. You should tell the kids the truth. Most the time on the job is spent in the grocery store, at the gym, watching tube and sleeping. If you smell smoke from a fire once a month it’s unusual. You are PR masters, ntheoc. You got it down to a science. The cops got nothing on you in that respect. And if there any cops on-line they would agree with me 110%.
There is the personal attack agenda I told you he’d get into… same routine in every firefighter blog. He has issues
It reads as if Yessup is stalking Ocobserver, he knows where he is at all times.
God knows you have the time ntheoc!
My syllogism on battered women had nothing to do with what you may do while on the job.
I however do know of a battered womans shelter that is housed in a fire station in the LA Harbor and staffed wit h a grip of FF that do absolutely nothing all day and night.
It is good you do those things ntheoc but it doesn’t make your organzation correct on the pension issue. In truth it actually makes it worse because you know the difference between right and wrong yet you still believe stealing from the taxpayers is a right of yours.
What in god’s name do battered women have to do with fighting fires??
Just another PR ploy. An FD specialty.
The other day I saw a OCR blog showing the FD transporting a dog with a leg injury to the vet’s office. I kid you not!!! hah!
They don’t miss a bet, do they??
Don’t be surprised when you see them doing fund raisers to save the whales!!!
nthoc..you have stooped to an all time low. First, statiscally it is a fact those with less income donate more of a percentage of their income to charities. Second, those who do charitable work don’t brag about it. Third, thanks to you and your ilk there is less to donate to the unfortunate, now. (you know the ones who really NEED it) Finally, fyi I have donated for years, EVEN to those families with fallen officers. I don’t want or expect recognition for it. Seriously, this is sad to use the ill and less fortunate to TRY and make your point.
JR, i think you took my comment the wrong way.. some were attacking my proffession and union by posting outragous and venomous comments. i just wanted to show how much good my union does in our community.. sorry if i came across as having an agenda!
I have a confession to make. Yes, a dark secret about my past, my shameful past. I AM A Member of the $100,000 club. Mea Culpa, lo siento, I’m sorry, mucho dolor! escuse moi! Sorry, but I still feel I earned it by fulfilling, with joy and vigor, the demands of my chosen occupation, and the terms of the numerous contracts negotiated over 33 years, and staying true to my oath as well as humanly possible. Heck, I even cared, to the last day, about citizens and or taxpayers like Donkey, JR, Where’s the Beef, and the omnipresent OCobserver. Must have talked/listened to them or their soulmates a dozen times a day, 24/7/365, upfront and personal, and did the best I could for them. Not because of a paycheck, or a future retirement check, but because, silly me, I was a believer. So, much thanks to all you taxpayers, seriously, I do appreciate what you and other taxpayers (myself included) made possible through our duly-elected county and state representatives. Have a nice evening, Donkey and Obs.
oldski, you’d better enjoy it while you got it.
remember one thing in life, my friend. in the end nobody really owes you nothing. you only think they do.
you got at most 3 years left before they start cutting into that fat pension of yours. trust me on that.
you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip, oldski.
Ocobserver, the Soviet Union disappeared overnite, in a flash because they ran their economy into the ground. Their pensions were as worthless as the government that had presented them.
I, as a taxpayer, would have had no problem with Oldski recieving $100,000 a year if he had saved the money himself. I saved my own money and it has worked out great for me.
It is the total lack of integrity on the part of many of these public employee’s that is the kicker for me. As a man that was brought up on the idea of fair-play I am disgusted by individuals and groups that would take advantage of hard working neighbors and friends by devising a scheme to rape them, their children and grandchildren of their hard earned dollars. To force them to work longer and live on less for the enrichment of the government workers.
Californians that work for the private sector understand that the economy is on the verge of collapse. Unemployment is close to 20% in the real world, tax revenue is continuing to fall, along with the free fall of home prices.
As a state unemployment insurance is $30 billion in the red, pensions with benefits are at least $340 billion in the red and the deficit for the general fund I am sure will be a minimum of $40 billion also.
These public employee’s that have helped bring about these deficits are also bringing about the collapse of our economy but they are so wrapped up in their euphoic greeed and self-rightgeousness they have lost sight of reality. The people standing outside their world can see the collapse coming.
yep, you’re right, donk.
when people start to feel ‘entitled’, watch out. it’s hard to break that mindset when they start to believe that “you owe me”.
there are many parallels to what happened to the soviets and what is happening to us. but people refuse to see the cracks that have formed in the dam. the soviet citizens lost complete faith in their politicians. The soviets could hardly believe a word they heard from the mainstream media. the soviet elite were heisting their system right before the collapse. citizens became detached from the electoral process (yesterday only 20% in Dist. 72 turned out for the assembly seat runoff). and to top things off, the soviet literally bankrupted themselves fighting a futile war against the taliban in Afghanistan. (eerie, eh?). They were taken down by debt. hmmm.
But these trough feeders refuse to take a step backwards and look at the big picture. it’s all about “me, me, me”. Very stupid and very shortsighted. When the tsunami hits it ain’t going to be pretty. Stupid is as stupid does.
As for feeling “entitled”, I feel entitled inthe same manner that one feels “entitled” to receive the items paid for when one is at the store. I entered into a contract and mutual consideration was and will continue to be provided by both parties; end of story.
The only “theft” in these discussions are the calls for rescinding valid contracts and stealing what folks have worked for for decades because some people lived beyond their means during the economic boom and now that they have to pay the piper they expect everyone else to share the pain.
Gee, I feel soooo guilty. In a pig’s eye I do.
ocobserver = uninformed propaganda artist who is generally wrong on the facts
To anyone who has legitimate concerns/questions about the pension system your firefighters and police officers work under… I want you to take a good look at the vitriolic attitudes of individual such as ocobserver and donkey before giving them any credibility. Consider… why would someone have this much anger? It’s not just because there’s an issue with pension programs… No, this is something else altogether.
The conspiracy is the pension scheme that the organizations you are defending have created Yessup.
The real question that needs to be answered by you is why does a person that claims to have no dog in this fight nor money to be gained and claims to not even live in our state want the citizens of California to owe $340 billion dollars to a cleaver scheme that hurts the private worker and enriches the government worker? You or someone close to you stand to gain by the way you write!
Donkey… really it’s just because I noticed a few of you loonies attacking firefighters back when they were talking about firefighter salaries sometime back and you know… the lies, twisted logic, and outright caustic attacks sorta pissed me off… sooooo… I’ve made it a point to check on these blogs…. and when I see you people making the utterly spastic statements you make…. I simply make fun of you for the paranoid dorks you are. Kapeesh? I don’t mean to sound harsh with that statement, but honestly… it’s not the firemen and cops that are wrong with this nation… it’s people like you who spew hatred. I realize you aren’t really reaching anyone in these blogs… I recognize most of you are pretty harmless…. but… you’re idiots. It’s that simple
Well 75% of OC voters voted to have the last word in any pension changes Yessup. That shows very clearly that people are well aware of the obscene pay, benefits and pensions that government workers are recieving and are prepared to make changes.
As for your attempts at belittling citizens with POV’s that diverge from yours it only shows that your arguments against us are weak and partisan.
Individual citizens are pointing out that the public employee unions are stealing from the private sector workers in a manner the insures the public worker retires to a life of luxury as the private sector worker continues to slave away until their death. This is a modern type of slavery where the connected GW is above the private citizen and must be stopped.
The actual deficits for this state runs in the hundreds of billions of dollars. This is a fact! And the money will not be found to pay for it.
Either the unions work to revise their self-made pension and benefit scheme or it will cease to exsist, as will the unions.
Donkey’s a fine one to talk about “belittling” anyone, given his stereotyping and denigrating remarks about government workers!
45yrsinoc, telling the truth in not denigrating, it is simply the truth.
Pensions for government workers are obscene. Ten thousand dollars a month is twice what any government employee should recieve for a pension. Putz!
wrong. “Ass” you can tell by the arrogant attitudes of most, the system has made these egostiscal minds rather abusive. They ain’t worth what they get and they know it.
if you guys really want to get rid of us then start your pathetic agenda at eliminating the 911 system!!!! once you get the people in this state to stop using it then we are no more,but untill then my pension and pay will stand,hah…you nimrods lose again…good luck and let me know how it goes…hah!
ntheoc..take a valium. you are so dramatic vs. reality. present logic for the argument. really, I try to look at your perspective, but you are so removed from reality, son.
ntheoc,
I don’t think anyone wants to eliminate the 911 system. We just want to cut your fat salaries and pensions in half. If they put me in charge of HR I could easily find VERY qualified personnel to do YOUR job at half the wage and pension. In fact, I could offer 401-k’s in place of pensions and still find good, solid employees. Your skillset simply doesn’t command your comp package, ntheoc. And since I’m paying for it I have a dog in the race. If you don’t like it go work for a private company and get paid in private funds and no one will complain. Got it??
geez JR, dramatic mabye,sarcastic yes,just kidding a little is most likely.. btw i could cut and paste many over the top dramatic post by your fan club on this thread!! hey i’ll try sticking more to the argument. round and round we go brotha!!!! goodnight………….
“I don’t think anyone wants to eliminate the 911 system. We just want to cut your fat salaries and pensions in half. If they put me in charge of HR I could easily find VERY qualified personnel to do YOUR job at half the wage and pension. ”
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I’ll take that bet. You find someone with a college degree, certifications in AIX, HP-UX and Red Hat Linux and 20 years experience in Oracle database administration, Unix systems administration and large-scale application development project management and then see how many you can hire to manage an enterprise of over 300 Unix systems running mission-critical applications for $65K per year and no pension plan besides a 401K.
Do that and I’ll show you someone that’s lying on their resume.
I see ocobserver isn’t interested in my response to his challange that he could find someone that could replace me at half the salary.
I’m not surprised. He probably didn’t understand most of what I listed as requirements.
JR, thank you for pointing out so vividly this whole argument, both sides and the middle of the road, comes down to nothing more than different opinions about “worth”. You talk about entitlement? I don’t feel entitled to any thing. The rules were laid out by negotiation, and I was true to the bargain, and I am grateful. You think otherwise, fine. “Arrogant”? “Egotistical”? “Abusive” attitudes? Invest some time in reading what people post. The abusive language, name-calling, allegations, threats and other colorful comments come, overwhelmingly from those 6-7 posters I’ve mentioned before. Don’t like the system, change it. If the rules change I’ll play by them, always have. In the meantime, all you outraged people sitting at your computers all day, railing about other people’s pensions, watch you 6 o’clock, somebody may be after something else you should be paying attention to. You’re spending so much time worrying about 2.5% of the state/local budget, meanwhile “they” are syphoning the 97.5% out of you pockets. You know what’s so entertaining here? I am personally involved in the issue, and I allot myself no more than 20 minutes a day to read and/or comment on these blogs. Some of you spend up to 18 HOURS a day (Obs?) on this and similar issues. Wow, that’s dedication.Question: on election day do you tear yourself away and go to the polling place, or do you vote by mail? Or vote at all?
Oh, and change it we will, Oldski.
Hang on, old feller.
You’re in for a bumpy ride!
“I don’t think anyone wants to eliminate the 911 system. We just want to cut your fat salaries and pensions in half. If they put me in charge of HR I could easily find VERY qualified personnel to do YOUR job at half the wage and pension. ”
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I’ll take that bet. You find someone with a college degree, certifications in AIX, HP-UX and Red Hat Linux and 20 years experience in Oracle database administration, Unix systems administration and large-scale application development project management and then see how many you can hire to manage an enterprise of over 300 Unix systems running mission-critical applications for $65K per year and no pension plan besides a 401K.
Do that and I’ll show you someone that’s lying on their resume.
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So are you up to the challenge, ocobserver? Or are you all talk?
From what you write Oldski you are a good man and I am sure a solution can be worked out that would leave you in a good situation and still reduce the costs that are ahead.
It would be cheaper to give the grandfathered pensioners like you $500,000 in a 401K and $50,000 a year with no Cola’s than to contine with the madness that is going to lead to the collapse of the entire state.
If you have any ideas on saving money from the other 97.5 % I would like to hear it. Short of demolishing the whole system all the bureaucrats have tied this state in knots.
yessup, it’s greed like yours that is destroying the nation. That’s why. FF’s or LE got nothing to do with it. It’s the blatant greed that we detest. And, trust me, I am just as livid about Wall Street as you are. But your elitist attitude is just as bad. You’re nothing special. Most of your business is based on ‘image’ and PR. The general public is beginning to see through it.
My “elitist” attitude? What precisely am I “elitist” about? My business? You have no clue what my business is. Why do you people insist everyone who is having discussions with you is either a cop or a fireman? Personally I’m just tired of the “take our country back” Libertarian nutjobs, who IF they ever could get any credibility with the anger and venom they spew… could really truly hurt our country (far more than any economic downturn could)
observer says,
” We just want to cut your fat salaries and pensions in half.”
””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’
got it ocb!!! and hey GOODLUCK!….
ntheoc, naturally you wouldn’t address the other points that I made in my referenced post. Because you know that every word is spot-on.
And the ‘GOODLUCK’ response simply characterizes the arrogance that we detest about you people. You couldn’t care less about the people you allegedly serve. Your objective is only to grab as much as you can for yourself. We know that. So do the people. That is why Measure J had a 75% approval in the OC. hah.
And that is why you are in for some BIG BIG changes up ahead whether you want to face it or not! hah.
The arrogance is so rampant that they have become delusional.
Hey OCobs, go ahead and try to find qualified people that will do these jobs for half (or less). Do you know what you’ll find??? You’re going to get unskilled people with crappy training like what you find in many small towns and counties in the midwest and south. A lot of those agencies have very little funding and entrust the safety of the whole town, city , or county to fewer employees who would never survive in an urban setting like what you find in southern California. Let’s get something straight folks, our pensions and salaries are not what is bankrupting this state/country, it’s these liberal whack jobs that feel the need to hand out money at a whim to illegal immigrants, people who are on welfare because they are lazy and chose to be uneducated, and excessive medical care costs for people who don’t even belong in this country. Let’s not forget the overwhelming number of people who are addicted to various substances but play it off as being bi-polar, ADD/ADHD, or some other ridiculous disease so they can collect SSI when in reality they are more than capable of working. How about we focus on those costs and leave hardworking public employees alone.
Love2, you were unskilled prior to landing a gobblement job. You don’t have to be trained to be a cop or FF. You learn it on the job. I guarantee I could find good, solid employees that would not negatively impact job performance one iota at half the pay of the average cop/ff and with a 401-K to replace the defined pension. Right now you get thousands of apps for one job. Even with 500 apps I could find good people. Oh, and I agree that the illegal foreigners contribute to our huge deficit. So does the welfare scam. No argument from me. But that does not diminish YOUR culpability one bit. You also contribute to our sinking ship. Pointing fingers won’t distract us either.
No one seems to be running to hire you for HR eh?
I know… I know… all part of the grand conspiracy
Don’t you have a line of hose to go pull???
ocobserver says:
Don’t you have a line of hose to go pull???
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Yousuck pulled it already-how do you think he was hired????
He probably pulled many hoses to get in. He sure wasn’t hired on merit or brains.
Love2ten15, you are correct about some of the liberal schemes costing Californians cash, but your own unions, with their greedy Pay, pensions and benefits are not without fault.
If this is going to get fixed the the unions need to help out and step up and acknowledge that their costs need to be adjusted. There is no government worker that should be recieving more than $50,000 a year in pension and with no COLA’s and free medical either.
My solution is that all government unions need to go the way of the dinosaur.
You might notice however, no one is lining up for Donkey’s solution. Oh, he’ll tell you they will though…. soon…. any day now…. Buehler? Buehler?
With $340 billion on the books now Yessup the writing in on the wall.
If your side wishes to jump off the cliff then a lot of folks will be going with you, I however have made plans that are a jet flight away.
Remember this is only California. There are 20 other states walking to the same cliff.
Honestly Donk… you make me chuckle
Donk…. I sure hope it’s not a jet flight to my state. I doubt it is… I live in a nice liberal city. You wouldn’t like it here I’m sure. Hmmm… you are going to be REALLY frustrated if you move here
Is that what your crystal ball tells you?
The pay and retirement only seem egregious in these tough economic times. I feel bad for people losing their jobs, I really do, but that does not make me or my level of pay greedy or make me a trough feeder as OCObs so eloquently puts it. I am simply a college educated man trying to provide the best life possible for me and my family with the skill set I have. This is all supposed to be a part of the American Dream, right? when times were great, no one cared that we were getting this pay or these benefits. Oh and we don’t get free medical for the rest of our lives. You only get a subsidy IF your department has set up a medical trust, which most PD’s and FD’s don’t have.
Donkey… seriously? That’s all you’ve got left??
After all Donkey… you are one claiming you have “writing on the wall”… and I believe it… writing… newspaper clippings…. strings connecting everything…. ahuh. I think you are an extremist wacko
I am having quite the laugh reading your childish retorts that have nothing to do with the taxpayers being robbed by government unions and their workers.
My vision of you is as an internet goofball with a bag of cheetos typing away on an orange covered keyboard with a big orange grin across your face.
Switching between what the adults write about, such as the obscene pensions government workers are recieving, and the porn sites you frequent you have a big gulp positioned to your left and refilling with grape koolaid as fast as you can. This habit causes you to have to use the restroom often, hence your orange colored fly and associated body parts.
I think you live off the teet of the taxpayer, hence your obsession with citizens that speak the truth about obscene GW pensions. You are a coward when you are alone that is why you side with the government bureaucracies and their unions. You are attracked to people in uniforms and hoses which is a concern, but otherwise hamless. Being unathletic, the cheetos are having an affect on you, causing your bloating and gas. Your mother has asked you to grow up but you were always afraid to so you hide in your Idaho bunker hoping the FF truck you saw as a kid will one day show up at your house and bring you a junior fireman badge.
Oh, one more thing, I think you are a loon.
nothing personal though… it’s good to have extremist wackos around…. you all make me feel so exceedingly normal.
It’s pretty obvious that you are ignorant when it comes to world history. You live in your own little protected world. If you didn’t have a union shop steward to remind you, you’d forget to wipe in the toilet stall. Coddled and led. hah. I’d love to see that look of panic on your face when the walls start to collapse. hah. You’d lose it. hah.
I’m the one with little knowledge of world history? Remember it was Adolf Hitler that advocated and brought about the elimination of public employee labor unions in Germany. Yeah… great idea Donkey! How’s that for ignorant you poser.
California didn’t have any government unions until 1975, the year Jerry Brown signed the law that allowed them to form. It has been all down-hill for the taxpayers since that time.
Ocobserver…. you and I both know what your motives are. It’s amazing that after 8 years of unbridled corporate greed and devastating deregulation under the Bush whitehouse, you guys actually try to blame public workers for the demise of the economy. It’d be laughable if it weren’t so stupid. But… here’s the thing…. In your case Ocobs… I don’t think it’s stupid at all (though your ability to debate beyond circular reasoning is utterly limited). I think in your case, the agenda is very calculated. Donkey’s just pissed because he always wanted to be a fireman and told him he looked goofy. Ocobs… you are up to something else altogether… and it’s not about safeguarding democracy and the American way… I love you guys though. I’ll be around Ocobs… I’ll be looking for you… just to remind you… these public employees… and their deserved PENSIONS are still there. See you in a month…. a year… heck… maybe 10
yessuck,
Like everything is history, the pendulum swings in both directions. As far as the public unions go, it has already swung as far left as possible and is now returning slowly to the center. We have seen more outcry about the greed of you trough feeders in the last 2 years than we’ve seen in the previous 15. That tells me that things are about to happen. Things that will displease you greatly. The private sector folks outnumber you at least 8 to 1. The sheer numbers will overwhelm you in the end. People will simply refuse to tolerate your avarice and greed. And your crony politicians will be able to protect you for only so long before they get thrown overboard. You don’t even deserve pensions. All of you should get 401-K and about half the salaries you rake in, especially public safety. The people understand this. See Measure J. And their emotions will change from discontent to outright anger. Just give it a little more time. In the meantime make hay while the sun shines. The worm turns, my friend. The worm turns!
Yessup says:
November 19, 2009 at 4:44 pmOcobserver…. you and I both know what your motives are. It’s amazing that after 8 years of unbridled corporate greed and devastating deregulation under the Bush whitehouse, you guys actually try to blame public workers for the demise of the economy
======================
Public employees are the BIGGEST reason for the states deficits.
You keep bringing up the private sector, but that is nonsense-if not for doubling spending in the last 10 years, almost ALL of it on retroactive pension increases and pay increases, where the average cop/ff/prison guard costs $200k per year-we would not be in this mess.
Yousuck, you’re just another trough feeder spreading the usual propaganda public employee baloney-and no one is buying your lunch meat anymore.
I’m going to love watching you modify your timeline as we go along though…. Just telling you ahead of time…. when you start doing it… I’ll know
Yea you’ll be watching alright, right up until you run out of Cheetos. LOL
Donk, in about three years if you see a guy holding the bag on the side of the road with that “WTF” look on his face it is Yessup.
Throw him a cheeto or two.
Ignore the deranged conspiracy theorists everyone. They have no power at all
JR, thank you for pointing out so vividly this whole argument, both sides and the middle of the road, comes down to nothing more than different opinions about “worth”. You talk about entitlement? I don’t feel entitled to any thing. The rules were laid out by negotiation, and I was true to the bargain, and I am grateful. You think otherwise, fine. “Arrogant”? “Egotistical”? “Abusive” attitudes? Invest some time in reading what people post. The abusive language, name-calling, allegations, threats and other colorful comments come, overwhelmingly from those 6-7 posters I’ve mentioned before. Don’t like the system, change it. If the rules change I’ll play by them, always have. In the meantime, all you outraged people sitting at your computers all day, railing about other people’s pensions, watch you 6 o’clock, somebody may be after something else you should be paying attention to. You’re spending so much time worrying about 2.5% of the state/local budget, meanwhile “they” are syphoning the 97.5% out of you pockets. You know what’s so entertaining here? I am personally involved in the issue, and I allot myself no more than 20 minutes a day to read and/or comment on these blogs. Some of you spend up to 18 HOURS a day (Obs?) on this and similar issues. Wow, that’s dedication.Question: on election day do you tear yourself away and go to the polling place, or do you vote by mail? Or vote at all?
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Yessup says:
Ignore the deranged conspiracy theorists everyone. They have no power at all
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See oldski, this what I am talking about.
They think breaking this state while they live merrily ever after is funny. Unfortunately, I do more than vote; I have been active in political causes and KNOW how it really operates. Yessup is correct, it’s all about money, favors and power. And just look how some gloat about it and take great pleasure in it. From the sounds of it, you probably have EARNED your compensation. The problem is alot don’t. I have friends and family who have either work/worked in govt and they will be the first to tell you so. And one who milked the system. Once that probationary period is over, they turn into greedy monsters because they know you can’t get rid of them. It needs to stop and government needs to be held accountable and efficient. The problem is none of them want to see ANY portion of government held accountable because it will be a slip of POWER for them. One of my pet peeves is tenure for teachers. It doesn’t matter how much money we toss to the vulchers, they want more. There are some excellent teachers out there who deserve to be compensated for their efforts. But you also have ones who should have been let go ages ago. Same goes in all departments. I’m glad to know at least one on here doesn’t seem to be high on power. This is not a bash towards FF or PD, but answer this: You have seen numerous people bash engineers and what a cake walk it is. If that’s the case, why are there so many people applying for FF and PD jobs while the sciences are dropping at record rates in this country?
JR, in answer to your last question, I believe it has to do with the general decline of US schools K-12, and particularly here in California, where in the 80’s the masses became enamored of “outcome-based” education, “whole language”, and emphasis on “self esteem ” rather than learning. For the past thirty years the mantra of Calif. education has been, “If they think they can read, think they can write and think they can add, let’s not hurt their feelings by correcting them”. Students are encouraged to feel good about themselves and to do what makes them feel comfortable and not pressured. Heck, the sciences, especially something as critical to the safety and progress of society as the engineering disciplines, is TOO MUCH LIKE WORK ! High school grads want to take classes they can feel good about, not ones that require WORK. Fully half of todays so-called college students would not have met the academic requirements as recently as 1986. As for your other comments, I can only speak about the people I worked with in law enforcement, and those I know fighting fires and tending to the ill and injured. If they made it to twenty years it was because they believed in the job and what it meant to society, whether appreciated or not. Do some in those occupations have what you would call “bad attitudes”? Sure, some, and they almost always drop-out along the way to 5, 10, and 15 years. They won’t put up with what they see as “bad attitudes” among the citizens. Make sense? Those that make it to a full retirement maintain to the end their dedication and their respect for citizen/taxpayers. After all, we belong to that club as well.