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California’s three strikes law is nation’s toughest, and out of whack, series concludes
November 10th, 2009, 1:10 pm · 26 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
You’ve heard that California’s prison system is reeling under the weight of the nation’s toughest Three Strikes law - which its employee union fervently backed, and which has swelled California prisons to their breaking point.
More than 15 years after voters approved it, California’s three strikes law continues to be highly controversial, and its fault lines were recently explored in a three-part series by National Public Radio.
Erwin Chemerinsky (pictured right), dean of UC Irvine’snew law school, is featured in the series. Chemerinsky was the attorney for Leandro Andrade, who was put away for 50 years to life after stealing videotapes from two different Kmart stores. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals agreed that a sentence of 50 years to life for shoplifting was cruel and unusual punishment; but the Supreme Court overturned that ruling on a 5-to-4 vote, concluding that Andrade’s sentence was not disproportionate because there was still the possibility of parole (though not until he’s 87).
- The series starts here, with an introdcution.
- The first part, “Two Torn Families Show Flip Side Of 3 Strikes Law,” is here.
- The second part, “Crime Locale Is Key In California’s 3 Strikes Law,” is here.
- The last part, “Cases Show Disparity Of California’s 3 Strikes Law, is here.
The basic problem, in many folks’ eyes, is that California’s law doubles the penalty for a second felony if the first felony was serious or violent; and the third strike - which carries a mandatory prison sentence of 25 years to life - does not have to be a serious or violent crime.
About two dozen states have similar laws, NPR notes, but only California counts any felony as a third strike, not just a serious or violent one. Voters came close to changing that in 2004, when a ballot initiative mandating that the third strike be a violent or serious crime was overwhelmingly ahead in the polls just 10 days before the election.
That, NPR notes, is when Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s commercials against the change began airing. But it fails to note that those commercials were bankrolled by OC billionaire bad boy Henry T. Nicholas III to the tune of $3.5 million.
The ballot measure failed, but expect to see more challenges to the law in the future.
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Three strikes and your executed. That should clean up the gene pool a little bit.
Only government bureaucracies that make their living off of our “prison industrial complex” are happy with three strikes and of course their families which are funded with faux crimes and jail time.
It is not by coincidence that the prison system in California morphed from 20,000 people locked up in the 1980’s to over 170,000 today.
The government unions for LE, DA’s, public defenders, judge’s, probation and parole, and prison guards love the numbers that they roll through their self-made system. The more citizens they can charge with a crime the more people in the system. This is exactly why the system has been set up to cause the citizen in it to fail, to keep the gravy train rolling for the government workers.
Folks three strikes is no doing anything to protect you. It is only providing highly paid government workers with an excuse to recieve more money every year.
Our DA’s are locking up people over fist-fights and ordering, jail time, 5 years probation and fees upon fees knowing good and well that the citizen can not afford these endless fees. Which inturn gives the system another reason to run the same person through the system.
If citizens are looking for protection LE is not the answer. You had better be ready to protect yourself.
These bureaucracies are not going to protect you. They have a system that only enriches the annoited ones that work in it and you are not a part of it unless you have a booking number.
When I grew up fist-fights were not treated as felonies as they are today. Our wrestling coach used to put us in a room with boxing gloves to work out our differences that could not be talked out and all were better for it. Now the system treats these same fights and exacts a draconium toll in the fee’s, fines, court costs and perminant felony records on people that may be best friends. This is not what our system was met to be; a huge “Gulag” to employ millions of Laywers, cops, guards, judges and clerks. The average citizen had better wake up because the “PIC” grows every year and the crimes that people are getting jailtime for are increasing every year and these bureaucracies have no conscience when it comes to naming new jailing offensives as often as possible. Once you get into their system they do their best to never let you out.
25 years to life is not what we in California give for murder in this state, 25 years to life is what we give for 1st degree murder in this state. 2nd degree murder is 15 to life. So why do we treat drug users and shoplifters with the same sentence? This irrational sentencing diminishes the severity of murder and will cost taxpayers more than $10 billion dollars while at the same time we slash education and services to children! It has nothing to do with public safety and does not make us safer. It is truly all about the money! We should reserve our prison resources for those we fear, not for those we are mad at!
You can thank the law and order couple form Lancaster who are supported by the prison unions for this mess. The Runners have been fixtures in Sacramento as members of the legislature and sponsored many bills increasing prison time for relatively minor offenses.
State employees should not be unionized. Short of that, unions should not be contributing to political campaigns.
“The basic problem, in many folks’ eyes, is that California’s law doubles the penalty for a second felony if the first felony was serious or violent; and the third strike - which carries a mandatory prison sentence of 25 years to life - does not have to be a serious or violent crime.”
It’s called sour grapes from the extreme radical left, like Erwin Chemerinsky .
It’s not sour grapes. I am a conservative and in no way do I agree with the state running a Gulag so that LE, Lawyers, Judges, prison guards and probation workers can all feed off the taxpayers for life.
Prison should be reserved for the worst of the worst. Not people that have had a fist fight, charged with a felony and then have them spend the rest of their lives in the “prison industrial complex” all the while the system caliing them violent felons when nothing could be further from the truth.
The PIC did not grow 800% because citizens suddenly became moe violent. It grew that fast becasue the government workers gaming the PIC saw a way to increase their take of the tax dollars pis.
No, it grew that fast because the citizens became tired of the liberals giving crooks so many chances. My tax dollars for peace of mind? Well spent.
All people that work for the Gulag think it is agreat idea.
Hell the DA lets those arrested for Felony drug possession go if they just give a DNA sample. California is not tough on crime. You get three years probation here for charges that would result in a prison stay in Texas or the midwest.
You have to make crime a lifestyle if you ever want to see the inside of a prison cell in Cali.
California’s Prison Industrial Complex is all about creating crime behind every corner.
A state doesn’t go from 20,000 prisoners to over 170,000 from being soft on crime. Texas does not incarcerate at the rate California does, our state is the worst of all states in that catagory.
The numbers have gone up too fast to be rational and that is because the PIC numbers are driven by the government unions that feed off it.
I have no compassion for these people. If you know you have two felony strikes you know what will happen if you get a third. The two strikes are a message to give up the life of crime. If you don’t get the message that’s your bad.
You need to do more reseach as on this three stikes law Rico. You can strike out on one dumb night. You get a strike for each person involved. My son recieved 5 strikes in one night. Know one was hurt. The victims did not even want to testify, But then you will be in trouble if you don’t testify. This law can even effect you Rico. No one is safe with this badly written law. It is unfair and distroys lives. My son just turn 21 drunk and stupit is his crime. But will never get a second chance this is fair to you? Hope you never ever have to found out the hard way. Because unfortunitly there is a lot of people that think like you so if you found yourself in a bad way they would just spit on you to.
Donkey - don’t make excuses for these creeps. How many strikes do you have? I have none. I don’t plan to have any. But if I had two I would not be living a life of crime. Sorry but they are no longer needed in society. Remember, the three strikes only represent three crimes they were actually caught and convicted of. No doubt they committed countless more.
Rico,the PIC cares little about guilt or innocence, it feeds itself by charging as many citizens as possibe with crimes and then uses the power of the state to exact plea bargains regardlees of guilt or inniocence.
I have no strikes Rico, but I have been on juries, two in fact, and there is no way any a regular citizen can get a fair trial with the money the state can allocate to find you guilty.
Three strikes represents the worst tyrannical power a government can be given.
This state is going to implode because of its PIC and nimrods like you are the driving it.
Let’s build more prisons, that will make work for construction workers, administative staff when built, guards, etc. That will help the economy, keep the creeps behind bars and get more people back to work and paying taxes to help California.
There is no money to build anything and using taxes to build prisons will do nothing but create debt for a state that is already broke.
It is clear from some of the responses on here why the cities, counties and state of California are broke, let alone why we have gone from 20,000 prisoners in the 1980’s to over 170,000 today, ignorance!
Hello, Californian Taxpayers,
WHY do you want to pay for the lifetime imprisonment of a pizza thief or a harmless drug-addicted, but NOT for health and education for you and your children? This would be a MUCH BETTER way to invest taxes. Currently, about 50 million Americans have NO health insurance!!!
DO NOT fear a government-supported healthcare system: PRACTICALLY ALL developed countries have one, and IT WORKS WELL!!!
The Three-Strikes Law should be LIMITED to VIOLENT/SERIOUS cases.
The death penalty should be abolished, too: It is NOT A DETERRENT AT ALL (see Texas with its over 400 executions!!!); it is often used for POOR and MINORITY people who cannot afford a good defense (HOW NEUTRAL, OBJECTIVE, and COMPETENT is a jury of average citizens???); INNOCENT EXECUTED PERSONS CANNOT BE BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE!!!! The death penalty is INCOMPATIBLE with MODERN INDUSTRIALIZED DEMOCRACIES (only the USA, Singapore, Japan [Justice Minister KEIKO CHIBA wants discussion/moratorium/abolition], and–with a JUST PROLONGED MORATORIUM–South Korea still have it).
This year, about 10 US States have wanted to abolish the death penalty, and t is a shame that ONLY ONE, NEW MEXICO, has really done so. The ILLINOIS moratorium is a step in the right direction, but a full abolishment would be better. Kansas and New Hampshire have had no executions since the reintroduction of the death penalty, but they have no official moratorium either, so the future is unclear. I hope many US States and other countries will follow New Mexico’s example.
Many greetings,
Someone
We don’t have a prison problem, we have an execution problem. The crime rate has dropped, and analysis indicates it is due to locking up the career criminals. Just a few criminals commit most of the crimes. Three strikes catches them and locks them up, thus fewer crimes. Isn’t that what we want? If we don’t have enough prison space, start executinig them. Start with Manson and Peterson and work your way down through all the murderers and rapists.
Donkey has right here. Add the war on crime to the war on drugs to the war against poverty to the war against illiteracy and you can see where the money goes. And the results just are not worth it. But the folks who directly benefit from those “wars” elect to office candidates who continue to fund those “wars”. Nice and circular, just the way the unions want it.
Most all of the strikers sentenced under Three Strikes had priors that occurred years before Three Strikes was enacted. They woke up on March 7th 1994 facing a life sentence for any felony even misdemeanors enhanced to felonies. Many were addicted, poor or mentally ill. That is who became the target of Three Strikes. These people will serve a longer sentence than those convicted of 1st degree murder, as there are no good time credits for third striker. But there are good time credits for 1st degree murder. It has not made us safer! Those that sell this ignorant spin should know well crime dropped in every state of the nation, not just California. In fact strike-less states enjoyed a greater drop in violent crime than California. This really gives the lie to the deterrent argument used by so many. It is hard to believe so many would also think building more prisons while slashing education is a good answer to crime. The logic could not more backwards! The issue is not about politics as many suggest. It is all about the money that the special interest receives from growing the prison industry. Ever wonder why California employs the highest paid jailers on the planet?
You are right on the “money” with your statement Frank.
The government union run “Prison Indudtrial Complex” is all about increasing the number of citizens they can send through the system they created to employ Lawyers, judges, cops, probation and prison guards.
We have more citizens in jail than any nation in the world. It is not because we are more evil or bad than others, it is because the PIC is corrupt and the people that we are supposed ot trust the most, (our crimminal justice system and their associated bureaucracies) are behind its unnatural growth.
Angler,
As I said, death penalty is NOT A DETERRENT AT ALL . IMHO, over 400 executions in Texas can be interpreted in two ways:
(1) One executed killer is just replaced by another one–PROOF THAT THERE IS NO DETERRENT!!!
(2) Most of the executed were innocent, only a handful were really killers–PROOF THAT MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE EXECUTED AND THAT THIS RISK IS JUST TO HIGH!!!
MOST Californian 3rd-strikers serve for NON-VIOLENT misdemeanors. A harmless drug-addicted is often harder punished than a murderer. And the Three-Strikes Law ENCOURAGES crime: Police officers were attacked or killed by people who tried to avoid a three-strike sentence. So it does NOT make California safer.
The situation of law and humanity in the USA is as follows: In California, you can get LIFETIME IMPRISONMENT FOR STEALING A PIZZA, and in Florida you can MURDER SOMEONE AND MAY GET AWAY WITH IT thanks to the Stand-Your-Ground Law. Just say you felt threatened by your victim, UNIMPORTANT whether it is true or not. This means in USA, a pizza is more valuable than a human life. In spite of massacres at schools, universities, shopping malls, etc., gun laws are not hardened, but rather softened. Everyone wants to have his own gun and can buy it without any problems, so even MORE massacres are the consequence. But if a pizza is really more valuable than a human life, WHY are people so shocked about these massacres? If you lose a beloved person, you just lose a slide of pizza, no reason to cry! How hypocritical….
Many greetings,
Someone
HI Someone,
You have a very compassionate argument however it is based on believing what you read in the paper. I’m not saying that the papers are lying it’s just you have to dig deeper to get the full story. A good example is the pizza case, look into it deeper and you will discover a very dangerous person finally got what they deserved only after a long career of hurting people. I must tell you I spent many years as a detective and think the strike record was 27 for people I was investigating so you can safely say that 3 and your out is not always the case. As far as the nonviolent drug offenders rotting in prison, again not the case, I wish everyone was able to easily get the complete backgrounds and they would probably come to the same conclusion as me, 3 strikes is expensive but well worth it.
First of all, that Leandro Andrade was sentenced to 50 years for stealing video tapes is a lie. No one is ever sentenced to 50 years for stealing a couple hundred dollars worth of video tapes.
Three strikes should be debated, and this case may be a good place to start, but how can anything be fairly and effecively resolved if one side starts out lying?
When looking at the overview of Leandro Andrade’s record, he is a career criminal, but does the aggregate really add up to 50 years to life? My first reaction is maybe not. But then what is to be done? Leandro Andrade will not stop being a criminal. Even the threat of 50 years to life could not stop him from stealing video tapes! Such a person is obviously not ever going to stop being a criminal. He will always turn to crime for any small reason. What will he not do? How is society to deal with such people?
Are there other solutions? The Three Strikes solution is expensive, but it works in reducing the crime rate. Criminals are behind bars. Does anyone have any suggestions not based on lies?
There is no acceptable rationale for the third strike to have to be a serious offense to send habitual criminals up the creek without a paddle. “Stealing video tapes” or pizza has as much potential to escalate and become a violent crime as any criminal act. Who makes the call?
The solution is simple: Stay out of trouble. Don’t do the crime and you won’t do the time.
Richard your statement is simpleminded.
Our unjust justice system uses the power of the state to find citizens guilty but does little to investigate their innocense.
The police do the initial investigation, which many times is poorly done, and then turns it over to the DA with a reconmendation to prosecute or not.
The DA’s do little to verify the facts given to them by the police and in court the DA and police conspire to convict the citizen placed before them. Few citizens have the resources available to them to recieve a fair trial under these circumstances.
Three strikes does nothing to protect anyone but does make the state more tyrannical in its ability to terrorize individuals that they do decide to prosecute and makes injustice easier to hide behind the law.
You talk about escalation as fact. The only escalation I have seen is the growth of the “Prison Industrial Complex” from 20,000 people locked up in the 1980’s to close to 200,000 locked up in 2009. We are no more evil as a people than we were in the 80’s.
Our PIC is not doing what it was met to do. Lock up people that prey on others.
Instead it is locking up anyone and everyone for petty crimes.
Richard your idea of justice is unsustainable and reminds me of the Soviet Gulag.