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Public pension reform initiatives are filed for 2010 ballot
November 6th, 2009, 1:34 pm · 159 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
Tapping in to public outrage over gold-plated public employee pensions, the California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility filed two reform initiatives with the state Attorney General’s office on Thursday.
“With more than $200 billion in retirement debts and skyrocketing costs crowding out the investments we need in education, health care, transportation, public safety and the environment, it is time for a statewide solution to our retirement benefits crisis,” said foundation president Marcia Fritz in a prepared statement.
“By requiring all new non-safety public employees at all levels of government to work until their Social Security retirement age for full benefits and ending the politicians’ raids and abuses of public pension funds, California public agencies can offer secure retirement benefits that are fair for taxpayers and their employees,” she said.
The Public Employee Benefits Reform Initiative would apply a benefits cap to the benefit plans offered to all new state, local government, school district, university and special district employees beginning July 1, 2011.
Early estimates show the initiative would save more than $1 billion the first year, and $500 billion over 30 years, as new workers replace those who retire.
How? By raising the age at which workers can retire with full benefits, and by limiting guaranteed benefit formulas to 75 percent of pay for a full career’s work. ”Significant additional savings would come from requiring new employees to wait until they reach MediCare eligibility age before supplemental retiree health benefits begin,” the foundation says.
The “Ten Commandments” of both versions of the initiative include:
- Honor all pension contracts
- Death and disability benefits shall not be changed
- Pension benefits must be fair and adequate
- Pension benefits must be guaranteed
- Pension spiking abuse must be discouraged
- Future generations should not pay retirement costs for today’s workers
- Retiree health funds must not be diverted to any other purpose
- Retirement benefit costs must be sustainable
- Local agency voters shall retain the right to change benefits
- Bankruptcies must be avoided
The two versions of the initiative can be found here and here. One would allow agencies to increase benefits for new workers; one would not. Only one will make it to the ballot; the foundation will poll voters to see which version they prefer.
After ballot language is approved by the state, the foundation will gather signatures to place it on the 2010 ballot. Judging by the vitriol around public pensions as of late, that shouldn’t be hard to do.
“California’s huge legacy retirement costs have been aggravated by pension benefit enhancements granted to public employees over the last 10 years combined with average pay increases of 50 percent to 70 percent both at the state level and among local agencies,” said Fritz in a press release. “Actuaries did not anticipate wage hikes of this magnitude, nor did they expect the market losses that have seriously reduced the value of pension assets set aside to pay for pension benefits. Workers are retiring earlier because many can receive more in retirement than while working. Defined benefit plans are viable tools if they are not abused, but generous guaranteed retirement benefits plus high wages have overburdened our public pension systems and ultimately our taxpayers.
“Sound fiscal policy, simple budget planning, and retirement benefits that ensure a dignified and secure retirement after a full career of public service are all possible, and this initiative will help lead the way for all levels of California government.”
More on pensions:
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There is a god in heaven. This is good news for those of us who are paying for these obscene pensions. If changes are not made, these ludicruous pensions will single handedly bankrupt California.
I can already hear the uproar from the trough feeders. The large tough will be replaced by one much smaller in size. Tough luck!
I especially like the verbiage…“By requiring all new non-safety public employees at all levels of government to work until their Social Security retirement age for full benefits and ending the politicians’ raids and abuses of public pension funds, California public agencies can offer secure retirement benefits that are fair for taxpayers and their employees.”
Welcome to reality public servants!
Doesn’t affect me Sparky. I’ll still retire in 5 yrs. with 80% pay - GUARANTEED
Now quit whining and go find a real job.
Kingo, nothing is guaranteed!!! Ask any Russian.
Kingo -
You think your stash is safe, bud???
You got five years to go??
hah.
You hired on at the wrong time, man.
You’re going to get caught holding the bag.
The economy as you know it won’t be around in five years.
You need to read the financial reports - the real one - the ones that don’t lie.
Sorry to be the messenger of bad news, sport. But your pension is about to go up in smoke.
the sky is falling the sky is falling..oh Rush tell me the sky is not falling!!
read this again genius…
G U A R A N T E E D……. by LAW
don’t be mad just because you can’t manage your 401k
LMAO…. all the way to the bank!
.
kingo says:
read this again genius…
G U A R A N T E E D……. by LAW
=======================
Read this Perry mason Jr;
BKL COURT= NO MORE PENSION!
Wow– I am a full time in the financial biz—- oc pal you’re a nut? 5 years and ni economy? Are you thinking of the Mayan calander?
Kingo wrote:
“read this again genius…
G U A R A N T E E D……. by LAW”
You don’t pay attention to what’s going on around ya, do ya hound dog?
Laws have and are being broken by our biggest financial institutions on Wall Stree and absolutely nothing is being done to stop it. Nothing. Laws are only as good as the power to enforce them. Once the economy blows up who’s going to fund your pension plan??? Elmer the flying turtle??? When the average ham ‘n egger is down on both knees, can’t pay for his rent, food or healthcare that he’s going to throw more loot in your direction so you can live high on the hog with your $100k + pension??? Sorry, but gotta say it. Kingo, you’re a certified village idiot.
Steve Thomas wrote:
“Wow– I am a full time in the financial biz—- oc pal you’re a nut? 5 years and ni economy? Are you thinking of the Mayan calander?”
In the financial biz??? Doing what??? Handing out free calendars and desk calculators to customers who open up a savings account at a local bank???
Obviously, you don’t pay attention to the REAL financial and economic data reports that are a barometer of where we are as a nation. This is simply math, Steve. You can’t increase the % of debt faster than GDP year after year (ration today is about 355%) without the laws of math stepping in and letting you know you’ve hit a brick wall. Look at all the markets….from real estate to labor to retail to treasury to banking to credit, etc, etc. etc…
Let me choose just one and expound….Credit.
Consumer credit decreased at an annual rate of 6 percent in the third quarter of 2009. Revolving credit decreased at an annual rate of 10 percent, and nonrevolving credit decreased at an annual rate of 3-3/4 percent. In September, consumer credit decreased at an annual rate of 7-1/4 percent.
No meaningful econ recovery can occur until the consumer has purged his balance sheet of inappropriate debt and is again able to earn and borrow. The consumer is totally underwater. It is NOT getting better. As the numbers clearly show, it’s getting worse with gobblement accounting shams and give-away programs (car for clunkers - housing purchase credits) trying to unsuccessfully cover up the damage sustained. The consumer drives 70% of the american economy, my friend. If you truly worked in the finance industry you should know that.
No, a Mayan calendar isn’t necessary to read the writing on the wall, Steve my boy. All you need to do is look at the REAL numbers, not the fuzzy touchy ones that are manufactured to give you a warm feeling in your tummy.
Look at the US dollar. If we go below $72 on the index Katie bar the doors. We’re only a few dollar shy of that number. Do you know what a bond dislocation is Steve??? Go look that up in your text books and get back to us. That’s your assignment for the day.
Enjoy.
Here is substance. ““Sound fiscal policy, simple budget planning, and retirement benefits that ensure a dignified and secure retirement after a full career of public service are all possible, and this initiative will help lead the way for all levels of California government.”
Wull … hasn’t that been the pretense of fabricated financial data presented and accepted without question that created this “unsustainable” mess?
In order to seriously address rampant corruption of approvals, there would have to be requirement for investigation, prosecution of fraud based on findings, subsequent criminal and civil actions would negate “union contracts,” incarcerate the looters and their elected cohorts. Just look a the anemic and ambiguous provisions:
“Sound fiscal policy, simple budget planning, and retirement benefits that ensure a dignified and secure retirement after a full career of public service are all possible, and this initiative will help lead the way for all levels of California government.”
1) Honor all pension contracts: ALL!
2) Pension benefits must be fair and adequate; isn’t that what has been claimed/demanded all along? How so?
3) Pension spiking abuse must be discouraged; “discouraged,” how so?
4) Retirement benefit costs must be sustainable; “sustainable,” as claimed as current protocol? Determination, analysis, approvals?
5) Local agency voters shall retain the right to change benefits; what is the process by which they must have a vote?
6) Bankruptcies must be avoided; what if those approved contracts, then as now, are not sustainable; the First Commandment is that all should be honored?
wheresthebeef: I am a county employee and I am not crying, I like you have read this and say fine. If you want to change something, then give it a start date and make it fair. Just do not go back 15 years and do take aways that people have taken years to get thru legal negotiations. No tears here. Time to go eat now, all this talk about the trough has made me hungry.
I agree– sounds fair…no tears here—- a new tier—- this has happened before….the US Constitution insures there will be no interference with existing employees and of course current retirees…..I am pretty sure the US Const. is here to stay…play on
The politicians have not raided the pension funds. They tried before and the courts told them hands off. Where do you get such misinformation? By the way, the public employees themselves pay into the pension funds. 75% of the monies paid to retirees is from investment returns. The rest is what the employee and agency paid into the fund over the years. Those funds are in reality part of the employee’s salary diverted to a pension fund. Not much different than a 401k. That amount is about what would have been paid into social security. Most public employees aren’t eligible for SS. The Calpers fund does a much better job than SS in providing pensions. Of course Calpers doesn’t have Medicare payments. All of this hoopla is about jealousy over pensions that aren’t available to those who didn’t choose a career in public service. It’s also about an inherent predjudice toward and feeling of superiority over public employees. Those that did choose a public service career did so knowing of the reduced pay overall but the larger pension payout in the end. Public employees have to take all this grief about not being able to get real jobs, but we know in the end that the pension is worth it. We also feel good about helping people for a motive other than profit. Good luck trying to get capable public safety employees with this new system. The only saving grace of this initiative is it recognizes the inherent unfairness of going after pensions of those who worked many years under a certain set of rules.
By the way, the public employees themselves pay into the pension funds. 75% of the monies paid to retirees is from investment returns. The rest is what the employee and agency paid into the fund over the years
==================================
BALONEY!.
The gov employee is not even paying the half he is supposed to-it is usually picked up by the gov agenmcy-aka the taxpayers.
The notion that you clowns pay even 5% into Calpers is a fantasly.
And the gov did NOT raid Calpers-like you claim-it lost 30% of it’s value by speculating on high risk bets-bets they lost and now want taxpayers to pay for, and also because they gave away the store with the 3%@50 scam in 1999 with SB 400.
Your lies wont work here trough feeder, we are too informed.
Reread my post. I was responding to someone who said the govt. raided the Calpers funds. I said that’s not true. Your other points are just plain wrong. The employee typically pays a portion of their salary as does the agency. And 75% of the funds paid out do in fact come from returns on investments. There is no public pension tax, per se. The monies come typically out of a general fund and are considered part of the salary costs. If agencies want to raise salaries to levels comparable to the private sector, along with matching 401k contributions, then that might be a doable alternative. That doesn’t work, however, for people who worked years under a different system. We can’t go back and make up the difference at this point. Your insults, clown and trough feeder, are offensive. I’d love to have you alone and hear you repeat those insults, sir. Calpers did lose a sizable portion of its investments as part of the economic downturn. But a good deal of that has already been made back as stocks have risen. Noone seems to point that out.
Both governors Wilson and Arnold did put their hands in the
CalPERS cookie jar. Pete Wilson needed the money, and he said that the CalPERS fund had more money than it would ever need. I do not know if it was paid back, but they are no longer allowed to do that, (I think). I would like to have someone who is more knowledgeable on those episodes bring us up to date.
Hankster– YOU are probably the only guy out here who has a real clue— you were spot on with your post….ignore the looney element…
Very well said. Don’t know where the haters get thier info about them having to pay for our retirements. We all pay into the program, and PERS does a good job of investing. If the haters learned how to manage thier monies and plan for thier retirements, maybe they wouldnt be crying as much.
This iniative hasn’t even gotten the okay of the AG’s office yet to start collecting signatures. It is very convoluted–ordering all CA’s independent public entities to abandon their respective pension plans and go under a single umbrella. Ridiculous!! If you are so sure this is the answer you’ve prayed for, you might want to be first in line to pony up the two million needed for the signature drive.
Why only non-safety? By far, most of public pension obligations goes to police and fire personnel–including our CHP and prison guards as well as the locals. Most get the sweet deal of 3% at 50. That means they can retire as EARLY AS AGE 50, and if they have 30 years of service they get to collect 90% of their highest average salary. That is obscene! Ordinary staff do not receive anywhere near this type of compensation at retirement. I agree that some sort of reform is due, however I object to Police and Fire being treated like the sacred heroes for doing the job that they signed up for in the first place. How “fiscally responsible” can this foundation be if they ignore Safety in their reform?
You must not know anyone who works in public safety. First, the pension will not bankrupt our state, I think the governor is doing that; second, when money was being made by the dotcomers, public service was looked down upon and we weren’t making the money everyone else was, so naturally, when it crashed, us public servants stay the same; nothing changed. What the article don’t tell you is what we have lost; I have 60 % disability for doing the job of protecting the public; what I get in retirement, is nothing compared to what I have lost. I think people are unhappy at the fact that we are in a stable system that is taken care of and takes care of its public servants.
I just said this today. The time has come to cut public employee benefits. They ARE NOT In line with the working sector. Cut pensions, holidays, life benefits and STOP CUTTING EDUCATION,.
BTW.. How much of a pay cut has all of the california politicians taken? Arnie?
Well, it is about time !! Aside from the totally unwarranted amounts involved, is the added insult that many of these state employees retire out of state !! Washington State is a favority destination because it has no state income tax. These people were perfectly contented to see California’s taxes skyrocket so that they could squeeze out the maximum through their unions, but now that they’ve retired they don’t want any part of California’s taxes. What hypocrisy.
Actually according to wiki p only about 15% of retirees leave the state—- get the facts dude…
Perhaps we should serve our retirement time in a prison? Would you say the same about an American citizen collecting social security who wishes to live out of the country? I think not. You have flat out absolutely nothing to say about where I choose to live and pay or not pay taxes. The federal government long ago passed laws dealing with this, and as well the courts have found that any California law taxing our pension while living in another state is not permitted. You are s.o.l. on this complaint.
Why don’t we just get rid of pensions and convert them to either cash balance plans or straight 401K plan? Most private sector companies have gotten rid of pensions because the reality is that they are very expensive to maintain. That is why most companies offer 401K plans. Why should state employees be treated any difference especially when there is no fiscal responsibility by the state? CA is one of the highest taxing state and state employees are the highest paid the sector. It is time for Fiscal responsibilities. If the state is profitable, it will share in the richest to its employees in form of a profit sharing into the employee retirement plan. When state is in a financial crisis, then no contribution. This is the real world.
I rather have my tax dollars go to schools and other valuable resources. Heck, the stereotypical state employee is not very favorable. To have this type of stereotype, there has to be some truth. Many coast through there job and collect a nice pension. Heck lets change there pay structure too based on performance.
So just because someone has a stereotyped, bigoted view of someone else, then it must have some truth in fact. Do you feel the same way about blacks? How about those lazy blankety blanks? Or stupid you know who’s? Yeah, and how about those nickel pinching, cheating so and so’s? You, sir, are an idiot and a narrow minded one at that. You so ably represent the mindset of many of the bitter folks posting on here. For my peace of mind, I’m going to ignore this disgusting pit of narrow minded bigots for now.
LOL
Ya - good luck with that geniuses. This will be voted down *easily*.
Why should they be punished for making a good career move?
There are 95% who aren’t abusing the system
.
Otto says:
Ya - good luck with that geniuses. This will be voted down *easily*.
=========================
LOL>..yeah right, that is what the trough feeders said with Prop 13-and we all know how that worked out.
they won’t even get the signatures….although i actually wish they would…
hey jblaze,you will lose prop 13 before we have anything touched in our pension!hah….it’s an unfair prop anyway.
Pretty weak 10 Commandments. The Bible’s 10 Commandments left no wiggle room. Look at the wiggle room here.
’shall not be changed”——vice “will”
‘fair and adequate”–how do you measure this?
“pension spiking must be discouraged”—how about there will be none.
“should not pay”—-how about “will”
“must not be diverted”—vice no divertion allowed
‘local agencies can change benefits”–isn’t this the problem we are trying to stop?
What a weak effort this is. I won’t sign this.
What flames me here is the pensions are out of wack not due to the average public employee but those at the top (city manager, fire chief, police chief. They are sitting on their hind ends all day, work for a few years and scam the system. The cop, the firefighter, that are out there everyday are who will be impacted. Remember when you want to hire cops and firefighters that those places that offer a good retirement will draw the most applicants. The same issue applies to education. It’s the UC Chancelor at $450K that is sucking the education budget not the teacher in the classroom.
Perhaps a better solution would to reassess the outlandish salaries of those in administration. What’s worth more? The firefighter fighting to keep your house from flames or the fire chief giving an interview? The cop walking into a gang fight or the chief of police giving an interview. That city garbage collector or the city manager?
exactly..not the teacher in the classroom..can u just see it if this prop. passes..a teacher starting at 25yrs of age will have to teach 50yrs in the classroom…are psycho wards will be full!!!
Only a moron would enter the teaching profession these days—- teachers have long ago gone under the bus with the right wing whack crowd attacks— politics IS education ….I advise all young folks to pick another career…
I can see where you might imagine that. But facts are these folks are such a small percentage of the retirees that it makes little impact. Your average retiree is making less than 30 k a year. Those over 100k are less than 1% of the total. The salaries earned at the top are much less than what you’d find in the private sector for a person of similar responsibility. Just because you or I don’t make that amount, doesn’t mean that others with huge responsibilities aren’t deserving of pay compensatory to their skills and responsibilties. Most of those at the top, such as the Fire Chief, started at the bottom. They are responsible for leading hundreds of workers and managing millions of dollars. Be reasonable.
I don’t trust either of these two proposels. On their face they look like public saftey unions have their hands all over these initiatives by protecting their thieving ways.
The system is corrupt and the benefits that were negotiated for the union workers was done by corrupt people. It needs to be torn down and all pensions disallowed and renegotiated. If they are not then I am one for letting them fail.
What these greedy crooks refuse to understand is that their system will fail and in the not to long future. When they do fail these theives will be as surprised as the people that lived in Pompei.
Your making some pretty heavy accusations. Where’s your proof? You have none other than your bitter and jealous rage towards those who’ve done much better than you in managing their careers.
This is only the start. Once the big bubble bursts and the bond market dislocates they will have to slice into pensions of retired and active public trough feeders - not just new hires. Just targeting new hires won’t solve the current crisis we are in. We continue to melt down. The federal gobblement is blowing a new real estate bubble with ultra low interest rates and big credits for a new home purchase. This is what caused the crisis in the first place. They are desperately trying to keep the property values at the current rates. Impossible. Home prices in the OC are still WAY overvalued. The average home should not exceed 3x average income in a sane world. So it’s all going to come tumbling down. If home values plummet it will devastate the economy and 65% of homeowners will be underwater!!! Disaster!! This pension reform is only a start. Watch ‘n learn.
Good post ocobserver. Like you mentioned, this is just the start to reform. I would personally like to see an iniative where we get rid of ALL pensions and go to a 401k style plan. Also, the tax payer should be removed from guaranteeing any persion shortfall.
Likewise, I agree that if you believe the Wall St. and DC talking heads saying good times are here again…you are going to be in a world of hurt. This “recovery” is nothing but a fraud. When the bottom falls out (stock market, real estate market, bond market, etc), we will witness true pain.
I am happy that we are at least considering lowering the boom on these gobblement slop programs. I give you credit for the word gobblement…I love it.
look what 3 flew out of the coocoo’s nest!! hah. this is the best you got so be happy,hah.. well you coocoo’s will not be happy with any type of reform unless it’s the total destruction of everything which is only a fantasy in your little wet dreams!!! like i have always said there is reform coming but not the type you coocoo’s want,never gonna happen! well i’m going to enjoy some trough o.t dessert,hah… “THE SKY IS FALLING,THE SKY IS FALLING”RIGHT CHICKEN LITTLE’S……..
Math settles all, ntheoc. The gobblement can play games and use gimmick accounting scams only so long before the walls start to collapse. Look around, sport. % of federal debt has increased much faster than % of GDP for years. And it has accelerated significantly in the last 2 years. Unsustainable. Tax revenues are down sharply - sales tax, property tax, income tax (especially with 10% + unemployement. Cash flow is negative. You think this stuff is a joke because you think you’re a knight in shining armour riding on the big red gravy train. You’re not that good, ntheoc. Trust me. You’re not. You’re stuff stinks just like ours. If you really think that you are immune from economic meltdowns you are more naive than I previously thought. You continue to ignore my warnings. Fine. Have it your way. Now go pull some hose.
ntheoc says:
November 6, 2009 at 5:57 pmlook what 3 flew out of the coocoo’s nest!! hah. this is the best you got so be happy,hah.. well you coocoo’s will not be happy with any type of reform unless it’s the total destruction of everything which is only a fantasy in your little wet dreams!!! like i have always said there is reform coming but not the type you coocoo’s want,never gonna happen! well i’m going to enjoy some trough o.t dessert,hah… “THE SKY IS FALLING,THE SKY IS FALLING”RIGHT CHICKEN LITTLE’S……..
=================
I feel sorry fopr ntheoc if he thinks the sky ISN’T falling, hurry, someone tell him Calpers ROI the last 10 years was just 2.4%, not the 7.75% needed to fund the system.
System is caving in-Im having a partay!
Math settles all– hmmmm Calpers is back 40% from 08 losses and the avg retirement is 25k—- hmmmm seems like oc and the other hissy fitters need to relax…
loser…hello. TWO HUNDRED BILLION IN DEBT.!!!!! MEN AND WOMEN ARE DYING FOR YOU!!!!! AT 5 BILLION A MONTH TO FUND WARS WHICH IS NOT ENOUGH AND YOU COULD GIVE A RATS A…!
OC— what a kook!
Sten Park wrote:
“OC— what a kook!”
Care to debate me and the facts that I communicate or are you just another ‘name caller’ with nothing of substance to add to the discussion???
I’ll give you a couple hours to respond and actually counter my argument.
Otherwise you’ve been owned and can move to the back of the class.
you are a moron— cal pers will roll omn and as markets flux so will the assets– relax dopey…
I won’t waste my time— you are a nut… blog on sleepy lol zzzzz
First, that’s not likely to happen. Second, they can’t touch our pensions. They are guaranteed by the contract clause of the 5th amendment. If it came down to the worst, the taxpayers would have to foot the bill. But, that’s not going to happen.
hankster81 says:
First, that’s not likely to happen. Second, they can’t touch our pensions. They are guaranteed by the contract clause of the 5th amendment. If it came down to the worst, the taxpayers would have to foot the bill. But, that’s not going to happen.
=========================
Wronf Perry Mason Jr.
BK would wipe out everything, including the pensions, past, present and future.
Taxpayers wouldn’t have to fund anything.
Google Prechard AL pension and see what comes up
When Orange County went Bankrupt, nothing happened to the pensions. They are totally separate from other government agencies for that reason. If you are counting on bankruptcy to cancel the pension obligations, dream on.
You are so naive about bankruptcy. BK does not wipe out anything–it just makes everything much more expensive. Why do you think you have not seen any other entity take that route since Vallejo.
correct statement of the law hankster….and at least 2 calif judges have ruled that way— more to follow…
Cuckoo, cuckoo. What an imagination.
I was disappointed that the free market in compensation was never
mentioned in the article or in the responses above.
The free market in compensation disregards such inapplicable
terms as “fairness” and has a genius to set pay, perks, and pensions.
A police officer or a firefighter (or the guy who walks on a beam doing
some riveting 50 floors up) are going to make what it realistically
takes to attract applicants who are fully informed of the dangers.
A pension should be delayed pay (at the request of the worker) and
not a sum contrived out of thin air after the worker has retired.
A police officer or a firefighter (or the guy who walks on a beam doing
some riveting 50 floors up) are going to make what it realistically
takes to attract applicants who are fully informed of the dangers.
===========================
100% false, these jobs get 1,000 applicants for every 1 open position, the pay has nothign to do with the free market, or anyhting else that is “realistic”.
You could cut firewhiner pay down to $10 an hour and still have GED applicants blocks long.
Nobody wants a 75 year old cop or firefighter showing up when they need help. Old cops are like old NFL players & old Boxers. Broken down.
Old cops can sit behind a desk and write reports and teach the younger cops. Likewise, old firefighters can stand by the truck and direct the scene via walkie talkie. The younger people will do the heavy lifting.
This is little dose of reality is going to be PAINFUL!
Firewhiner? Seriously you are an idiot.
no kidding….who are these arrogant jokers? or shoul dI say THUGS?
Got my 3 at 50 pension locked in and still will make over 100k this year. Thanks!
jake says:
November 6, 2009 at 9:09 pmGot my 3 at 50 pension locked in and still will make over 100k this year. Thanks
==============================
At leats until BK is filed.
Google Prichard, Alabama Penions and see yourself in another 6 months.
Blaze– my boy I hear ya but this is impossible under Ca.law…….
Blaze– my boy I hear ya but this is impossible under Ca.law…….
=========================
LOL..yeah hright, and who told you that lie?
Funny thing is Prichard AL public employees said the exact same thig, and guess what-NO pension checks.
Carol is correct and after 30 years practicing bk law I might know!
Yes this is only the start– soon we will enslave all public trough feeders and take all of thier assets and convert them into funds for our own use. Then we will put them in stocks in the town squares and ridicule them for days all the while devising plans to deport them to the middle east to fight our oil war…..With the money we save we can still drive our suv’s…
Hey Johnny— er ah Surf Puppy 619—- I Love the way Joe Friday owns you on the SD blog—– you are a clueless fellow with the same old weak tired arguments—– and the lads on this page let you get away with it! JF owns you amigo—lol….have a nice blogging day….
Hey-it’s JF …errr…”denehey rocks”………getting owned again
We are all laughing at you Johnny, er ah surf pippy…lol
You appear to enjoy human suffering wherever you can find it. Alabama is not California, and comparing the two would be the same as comparing apples and oranges.
Jake— Shame on you for getting these dumbells so worked up—–
jblaze says,
“I feel sorry fopr ntheoc if he thinks the sky ISN’T falling, hurry, someone tell him Calpers ROI the last 10 years was just 2.4%, not the 7.75% needed to fund the system.”
System is caving in-Im having a partay!
====================================================
don’t feel sorry for me blaze i’m doing just great! just a little 24hr trough o.t dessert today!hah. hey what i am i the only one getting your wrath today!cmon i said only 3 flew out of the coocoo’s nest don’t make it 4 jblaze.lol…btw you will help make up any % of shortfalls,unless you break the law for tax evasion.HAH…GOTCHA!!!!!!
tax evasion??? hah! In five years they will have to throw over 60% of the american population in jail for tax evasion if they intend to enforce it! Good luck with that. Ntheoc, your assignment today is to go buy a turnip at Ralph’s - take it home and try to squeeze blood from it.
Get back to us and let us know how that worked out, woncha???
HAH!
I work in local government, and I do agree that the pension system needs some tweaking. However, it is dangerous to go too far. There are many that have little to no education, who will fair much better than their counter part in the private sector. On the flip side, there are those that are well educated that are needed in the public sector such as engineers, planners, building officials, accountants, etc…
The attraction for me to work in the public sector is multiple. I truly do enjoy serving the public, and working with people to make a better community for them.
I also appreciate the income I make and the defined pension I have that will make certain that I am secure for the rest of my life.
In the previous boom years, I was often ridiculed by those in the private sector that I worked with on why I didnt move to the private sector since they often made double what I made to do a very similar job. Now, these same folks have been laid off and are out of work. The lesson is I prefer to have the defined pension than ride the roller coaster in the private sector. In the long term it is likely that all would balance out for those in the private sector and public sector…as long as people invest wisely.
If too many drastic changes to the defined pensions happen, you may end up with many leaving the public sector and the ability for government to attract quality employees will be greatly impaired.
You don’t have to agree with it, but it is the type of thing us government employees discuss.
The other factor that has not been discussed here at least is the likelihood that incomes for the “new” employees will likely have to rise to stay competitive with the private sector, since the defined pension will no longer be as attractive as before. This of course will lead to more money being transferred from pension plans to salaries….and of course you wont be able to raise the wages of just the “new” employees, but also the incomes of those that are in the system..
This would could have the opposite effect that the proposition intended since the incomes of those that are in the system will likely be paid even more and get even higher retirement payments.
So be careful what you wish for, there are many unforeseen consequences that those that work in the private sector don’t understand, or choose to ignore.
well and calmly stated…
Great point, Samson. Just to add, all of the well educated applicants–keep in mind that “Cs” get degrees– for these public sector jobs will no longer apply, now that the pensions will be greatly reduced. Because of that, all of the GED and H.S. dropouts–as most of you think they are– will still be applying. So…..make up your mind, folks!!
ok JohnnyBlaze, I can’t wait for the $10.00 an hour firefighters to come work the blaze when your house is burning.
As a public employee, I pay $600.00 per month towards my pension. How much do you pay SS?
The difference between your $600/month goiing towards your pension and $600 going into SS is huge. You will likely get back 5 to 10 times the amount you put in. For those of us “forced” to contribute to SS we will likely get 75 cents back for every dollar put in…and it gets worse the younger you are.
Some of us in Cal government/municipal positions pay social security and contribute to our CALPers retirement…
Samson, if the government was gone tomorrow the taxpayers would throw a party and devise a way to build, teach and maintain ourselves without taxing everyone to death.
Governments have come and gone for thousands of years and life has always gone on.
What Donkey said. Government is a business. Most of these jobs could be subcontracted out to the private sector for much less cost. The entitilement packages that come with these jobs are ludicruous plain and simple and will bankrupt this state. Remember, the tax payers didn’t vote for these pensions. Corrupt union officials conspired with corrupt politicians to give these gifts.
How on earth are we supposed to pay the 3@50 program (which includes yearly cost of living increases and free healthcare for life)? Nobody deserves a pension this egrigious. The max pension that should be given out is 1.5@55. This is still beyond generous.
Change is a coming. For all you naysayers, keep telling yourself everything will be OK and you’ll be feeding out of the trough indefinitely.
Dorky you are dreaming…
I would like to see you prove that it is cheaper to outsource all the jobs in your local City Hall.
With your argument, we could outsource most the jobs in the private sector to people who live in other countries too. That we could costs down for all of us as well.
I assume that most of you have never worked in government. It is too easy to discount the need to have qualified people who work for you at your local City and have some longevity and an institutional knowledge that is extremely valuable.
You need to have consistency in local government so you have people who are there and responsible to make sure your streets are safe, parks are cleaned, programs run smoothly, finances are managed etc.
You are right to a certain extent that Government is a a business, but the role of government should just to be as efficient and effective as possible, but also responsive and accountable to the residents they serve.
You just dont get that kind of responsiveness with contracted services.
This one size fits all approach to how government employees should be compensated just doesnt work. For certain some agencies need to run more efficiently, but I am sure the same can be said for most private companies. Government is always under much greater scrutiny and under the micro-scope at all times.
You could cut pensions to 1.5 @55, but if you think you get poor service now…just wait. It isnt a threat, just a reality.
At least in local government, the City Manager doesnt make 100+ times the average employee. In comparison to the amount of work, stress, and experience needed the compensation is fairly average.
Samson,
Have you read the tinfoil crowd’s responses above? Why are you leaving an intelligent response for the Glenn Beck fan club?
Sidney
As far as being cheaper to privatize most of our government services…this is a no brainer. You no longer have to deal with the stranglehold of the corrupt unions and corrupt politicians. This is what makes the current system so expensive.
Your quote, “You are right to a certain extent that Government is a a business, but the role of government should just to be as efficient and effective as possible, but also responsive and accountable to the residents they serve. You just dont get that kind of responsiveness with contracted services.”
Are you kidding me, the current form of government is the biggest inefficient, wasteful entity ever. I’ll give you some examples: DMV, post office, Cal Trans, etc.
Pension reform is coming. Most people in the real world are just now getting educated to the back room deals that were made by corrupt union leaders and corrupt politicians. Sit back and watch.
well said sam man—-
You could cut pensions to 1.5 @55, but if you think you get poor service now…just wait. It isnt a threat, just a reality.
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Oh brother….as if the GED dorks we hire in gov now could get any worse.
Gravy train is up trough feeder. Deal with it. If you are unhappy take your GED out into the real world and earn your keep.
this string usually attracts about a 50/50 glenn Beck/retarded crowd…….
Have you ever seen the kooks who come to the City Council or Board meetings and drone on with complaints while everyone rolls their eyes and yawns. That’s who alot of these folks are. Your basic garden variety tin foil hat wearing kooks. You just can’t take them too seriously as they are a fringe minority of weirdos.
You are right Sidney…I thought about that after I posted. When all you ever see is the DMV or the Post office…than I can see how you think it is inefficient. Lumping all government agencies using just these examples is the problem. I actually never have a problem with the DMV or the Post Office if you use the system as designed.
Anyhow, I made my statements, there really is no reason to debate people who don’t know what they are talking about. When you only have less then 1/2 the information it is myopic to make a reasonable decision.
I never have problems at the dmv or the po—- unless some moron customer in the line in front of me takes too long…
THANK YOU SAMSON!!! there is nothing these coocoo’s can say to debate the true and real facts you have posted…but they will continue to express their twisted opinions and spin on the facts for everyone’s amusement!!! donk,beef,and observer just got a huge smack down by samson,wow how ya like them apples!!!!!! nice job samson
Samson, you seem like a well educated and intelligent person. I commend you on your posts and the way you shut down the uneducated lackies like Donkey, Beef, and OCObserver. Although, after reading all the comments here, I believe OCobserver and Beef are the same person writing with different names.
The system that your unions have created is not sustainable. Your own pensions Actuaries have said that much.
You can continue in your fantasy world of $10,000 a month pensions, with unlimited COLA’s and medical, but the money is soon running out and there will be no taxpayers left to pick up the slack.
A rational group would find a solution to the mess they created before the hammer falls. The problem lies with your group of narcissitic slugs. Your greed has blinded you from reality and being blinded your whole group is going to fall right into the abyass of bankruptcy while whining about how you were guaranteed the ill gotten gains your unions have stolen.
Your groups will soon find that there are no guarantees.
Well said Donkey. When there is no money left to pay out these pensions, what will happen then?
Will there be a massive tax increase to pay these turds out? In this economic environment, I think not. We would have a revolution before this happens.
Will California print their own currency? No.
Will California issue worthless IOUs? Probably.
Keep wishing and hoping that you’ll get your bloated pensions forever. The system is unsustainable (in the word’s of Calpers actuary). Something will have to give down the road…and it won’t be pretty. Watch and see.
What a crock— the average pers retiree makes 25k per year, half only 19k !!!– calpers has regained 40b of the 100b losses booked (noted) in 08— the fund is solid—– this is all a bunch of alarmists following each other and jealous. While reform is needed at some levels the tired drum of lies gets very old….the register is not only bk but dull…
rick irons says:
November 8, 2009 at 8:53 amWhat a crock— the average pers retiree makes 25k per year, half only 19k !!!–
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And your point is what Einstein Jr.?????
It is NOT the “average” Calpers retiree that is sinking the system-but the $100K and up that are.
And pretty soon the “average” Calpers pension is going to be $80K.
lol wrong surfypippy lol
In the next five years the next round of high priced retirees will be hitting the books and the red ink will be rising faster than you can swim Rick.
The fall will be swift and while you take to the streets whinning about your “guaranteed” money and benefits the taxpayers that are left in California will be rejoicing.
We are at a time in history where the “haves” are soon to become the “have-nots” because of narcisstic greed on their part.
REJOICING PARTY OF 3! DONKEY,OBSVER,BEEF..AND 1 CHILD,BLAZE
Poll: Voters Believe Public Pensions About Right
October 21, 2009
A recently released public pension poll showed a plurality of California voters believe public employee pension benefits are about right. The poll, conducted by the independent Field Research Corp., surveyed 1,005 registered voters in the state. Only a third of those asked think that pensions for current public employees are too generous. More than half believe that state and local government worker pensions are about right or not generous enough. Additionally, a majority of voters surveyed approve of somewhat more generous pensions for safety workers such as firefighters and police than for other public employees. View the Field Poll.
http://field.com/fieldpollonline/subscribers/Rls2318.pdf
Polls are not going to pay for unsustainable pension costs ntheoc.
wow what a circular argument— these pensions are only unsustainable if the markets never improve (and pers has already built back 40% of the losses) AND if new tiers are not added—— these hysterical blog tolls crack me up……lolololol—
That’s the laugh of a cowardly liar hoping the inevitable truth is not about to happen.
ok donkey you are right lolololol weeeeeeee
What you are seeing here in California is no different than what the unions did to GM and Chrsyler. They will demand more and more and more until the goose that layed the golden egg is cooked. The unions don’t care about the financial well being of California. They only care about exorting as much money as possible…consequences be damned.
Like it was mentioned. The next few years will see pension payouts go through the roof due to retirements of people who were gifted these gravy train pension. It’s simple math…the fund can not sustain itself without indefinite double digit rates of return. I’m not an economist, but I will guarantee that this will not happen in the “new” world we live.
Watching this train wreck will be fun!
beef wrote,
“Watching this train wreck will be fun!”
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it will be more fun watching you,donkey,and observr trying to get out of your straitjackets that have been placed on you due to your delusional and chicken little mindsets!!! hah.”THE SKY IS FALLING”THE SKY IS FALLING”…
Sure buddy. Keep telling yourself that everything is hunky dory. Good times are here again and streets will soon be paved with gold. To you this is just the new economic paradigm…we don’t need jobs, more debt is better, we’ll just keep printing money until we run out of paper.
Fools like you will learn the hard way.
This exactly what I mean about the facts.
Where are you getting this from?
“You can continue in your fantasy world of $10,000 a month pensions, with unlimited COLA’s and medical”
Most pensions and social security receive a cost of living increase that is in line with the Consumer Price Index and cannot exceed the rate of inflation.
As far as medical, in my experience…there is no unlimited “free” medical. Typically, you are permitted to purchased insurance at the same rate that you had previously depending on the agency that you retired from.
I work with many people who are beyond the permitted retirement age (55) that have not, because they cannot afford to retire. You see…now the City pays for theirs and their dependents retirement up to a max. If they retire that benefit goes away…so they have to pay out of pocket. From what I understand, this cost is roughly $1,000 for 2 people…A cost that many cannot afford…So some delay retirement until they receive medicare.
I don’t know where to start with the 10K a month pension. That would be an income of 120K a year, as stated around 1% make 100K or more. I would venture to guess that around .5% make an income over 120K a year.
Roughly 80% of the retirees make less than 40K a year.
Again, you don’t have all the facts…so it is extremely difficult to understand your debate.
Samson…I don’t know where to start with you. The gravy train pensions (like the 3@50) were gifted tens years ago. Soon almost every state entity increased their pensions…because everybody else did it, it should be ok. The people who wll be receiving these bloated pensions will be retiring in mass very shortly. This is when the dam will break. These pensions can not be paid out unless you get infinite double digit rates of return on your investment. That is fantasy land.
Even the Calpers actuary said the scheme is unsustainable. Do you not believe him? This person knows the financial aspects of Calpers better than anybody…I would believe him.
Those are my facts. Where are yours. Please explain in detail how these pensions will keep gettng funded. And raising taxes is not an option.
These are the exact words from the Calpers actuary. Read it and think long and hard about it.
“I don’t want to sugarcoat anything,” Seeling said as he neared the end of his comments. “We are facing decades without significant turnarounds in assets, decades of — what I, my personal words, nobody else’s — unsustainable pension costs of between 25 percent of pay for a miscellaneous plan and 40 to 50 percent of pay for a safety plan (police and firefighters) … unsustainable pension costs. We’ve got to find some other solutions.”
The actuary, Seeling, is the one who is working with CalPERS on the smoothing plan which was introduced to make it sustainable. You obviously avoid logging on to the CalPERS website that has a section entitled “CalPERS Responds” which will cover all the myths and facts regarding the sustainability of CalPERS.
I went to website and got a good laugh at most of their responses. They were patting themselves on the back for positive returns 16 out of the last 24 years. Sorry bucko, that was during the biggest stock bull market bubble in history. That can’t be sustained…and nowhere did they mention the percent return needed to make these pensions fully funded.
The fact is that almost every state entity involved in these pensions piled it on in the last ten years. When these pensioners retire and want to be paid, that is when the trouble will start…they didn’t mention that in their responses. Let’s face it, you can not have people retire in their 50s and receive a huge chunk of their last year’s pay until they die. They could be on the dole for 40 or 50 years. It’s simply not mathematically sustainable. There is no point in arguing anymore…either you accept the facts or you don’t.
well— for one thing—–Bill Lockyear State Treasurer agrees some reform is needed– I think we all agree on that but that the actuary is “a bit hysterical…” Since that quote Calpers was well on its way to make back 40% of the 2008 losses—- settle down retards
they ignore the facts…the average pension at pers is 25k——- this is boring…
Ironhead. The average pension isn’t what’s breaking the bank. It’s the gravy train 50K a year plus that will bring this state to it’s knees. As every year goes by, the number of people collecting these crazy pensions will increase exponentially. I know those are complicated math terms for you GED union guys…in layman’s terms…this is not sustainable for much longer.
beefy—- where is your math dopey??? What a wind bag…
Irons= Trough feeder.
hey loser-pay your OWN way, for ONCE!
Like I have said, I agree with you that things do need to change. I do think the 3%@50 is extreme, I even think the 2.7%55 that I am under now is high. I do think putting the max at around 75% to 80% is reasonable as well.
I don’t think cutting the benefits to 1.5%@60 makes much sense either. You would have to work 40 years just to get 60% of your final salary. This is a disincentive to work in the public sector. Like I said by cutting this benefit, you would have to raise salaries to stay competitive with the private sector.
In my experience, most people I work with are willing to pay more out of their salary to insure that they have these benefits. That is the most likely way that these benefits would be protected.
What I think is forgotten is there is a wide range of employees that work in government, from landscapers to licensed engineers. A one size fits all approach to how benefits are assigned just doesn’t make sense.
Should the CEO of any given company have the same benefits as the janitor?
I do see the financial concerns in the future. What will and is happening is government is getting leaner. In my recent experience, many positions have been frozen and there are fewer employees doing more work. This of course has a negative impact on the public that expects immediate response to all problems…contractor out these services just isn’t feasible when you consider the demands of the public.
Now my experience is a microcosm of the bigger picture. I work in local government…there are larger issues that likely go on in the Cal State system, the DMV, etc.
In the example of CALTRANS, they should transfer many of the local highways like Beach Blvd. and others to the cities that they serve…(along with the money of course). That would solve many problems in those areas.
I think most would be amazed at the complexities that go on in governing a City. The public is shaded from all the problems, because for the the most part cities do a good job and keeping the City running.
In order for this to continue these employees must be compensated fairly, that would either man by salaries or by pensions.
If neither of those things are substantial enough in the future in comparison to the private sector, than you will see a decline in service.
It is doubtful, that most citizens will stand for it.
I’m not sure what the answer is, but is seems that most agencies will work towards reasonable solutions as the market demands.
Samson,
I think we’re starting to see some common ground here that things need to change and change will be forced whether people like it or not…those are the grim facts. Math doesn’t lie and this comes down to elementary math. The amount that will be paid out for these pensions will be greater than the amount put in plus any investment return. Thus they are not sustainable.
Running a state or city is not easy, I agree with you there. It can be done, there are plenty of states that aren’t in the financial death spiral that California is in. Many of these bad financial decisions were self induced. It will take time and there will be plenty of unhappy people on the way.
Change is coming.
Samson, you must not be one of the public saftey offenders in the public pension system because you can see that 3%@50 is obscene. Also the public saftey crowd has the added scam of spiking their pensions.
In fact there are 32 ways that these “public saftey” pick pockets can increase their pensions for life in the last three years of their employment.
Then lets add the fact that most retire on disabiliity @ a far higher rate than the private sector ever has or will, and this is so they can keep from paying taxes on their ill gotten gains.
Above I have posted just a small sample of how corrupt the public saftey side of the equation has become . However this does happen in the management side of pensions also, with the exception of the cheating on disability.
Samson that you recognize there is a problem is the first step. I don’t want to see anyone without a reasonable pension, but $10,000 a month with unlimited free medical is way over the top for a retired cop or FF.
donkey quit twisting the numbers and ignoring the facts.why don’t you go on the pers website and all your answers are there. ff’s and cops do deserve the 3%at 50 formula! you may see an upper management chief make 10k in retirement but not your average ff or cop.
Fact:
calpers records indicate that over the last seven years, safety workers who retired at age 50 with 30 years of service represented 1 percent of all those retired. The reason very few ever would receive this level pension is that they would have had to start working age 20 to earn 30 years. Most start their safety careers at age 27, 28, or 29.
ntheoc, I have friends that were your average cop that are getting $10,000 plus a month.
Ntheoc you are so jaded in your thought process. If what you say is the truth then why even have a 3%@50? Why wouldn’t it be 3%@ 60?
The fact is that the 1% you speak of will soon be more and these new retirees will be accounting for the majority of the costs.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of the truth kid.
It’s easy to see that you have few friends, and if you had any retired police friends they certainly would cut you off on learning of your bitter attitude.
Unlike you hamster, my friends happen to know that they have been grossly over benefited. They however didn’t take advatage of every spiking scam available like most of you crooks.
Besides they also know that I have more than they ever will.
Donk, you sound like a real nice guy. I’m sure your “friends” just love when you brag about having “more” than them. That’s one way that I’ve found is a sure bet to make great friends. Brag about how rich you are, especially in comparison to their meager public employment benefits which aren’t really deserved since they are really just GED educated trough feeders. Yeah, that’s the typical retired cop or firefighter I know. It’s good they came clean to you about getting too many benefits. It’s not the average public trougher who can freely admit to his rich braggart friends that he deserves even less than the rich braggart friend as he didn’t work hard or deserve the overly generous trough like benefits. Yes, this sounds very plausible. Thanks for turning us on to your inside knowledge of your overly benefitted, but humble to their betters, “friends”. ROFLMAO!
Looks like you feel the same as they do hamster!
No they don’t hate themselves as it appears you do.
Donkey ……is a good name for you!!!
Why don’t you enlighten us to a few of the 32 ways that a public safety pick pocket can increase their pension for life in the last three years of their employment…..
What a bag of air..!!!
Yeeees—-donkey is a sad blog troll feeding his windbag so he can pontificate dull normal drivel…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Irons, your union is stealing from the taxpayers to enrich their members at the expense of everyone else.
The taxpayers are learning about your scheme and will soon bring it to a halt, while the job market and wall street help to reveal your greed.
Dumbazz is a good one for you!!!
From the pages of Calpers itself:
1. Regular base pay
2. OT paid over a maximum (varies from agency to agency.)
3. Workers comp temp disability
4. Shift differential
5. Special Pay allowances
6. Incentive pay allowances
7. Miscellaneous allowances based on % of base pay
8. Management differential
9. Retirement offset (employer picks up the majority of employee’s pension costs.)
10. Leave balance usage
11. Insurance subsidy
12. Insurance subsidy offset ( employer’s pick-up the employee’s cost.)
13. Mental heath retention
14. Disability pay
15. Pay in lieu of temporary diability.
16.One time bounus*
17. 7/12 work shift*
18. Standby pay*
19. Food allowance*
20. Clothing allowance*
21. Animal allowance*
22. Equipment allowance*
23. Auto allowance*
24. Vacation cash-in*
25. Payoff of vacation beyond maximum accrual*
26. Purchase of service years at a discount
27. Reinstatement of service. (retiree’s can return to work and recieve any past increases into their new pensions formula.)
28. Retire from one department and work for another while recieving their pension.
29. Opt out of employer provided health care and recieve cash- in-lieu- of benefits.
30. End of year career promotion.
31. Phony disability claims for lifetime tax reductions.
32. Puchase of non-essential junk to add to job costs for a lifetime pension increase.
The whole sysem is full of corruption and needs to be disolved, and everything that has been stolen from the taxpayers to date returned and or refigured.
You’ve got quite an imagination. That’s why you’ve got “more” than your average public trougher. I’ll bet you have loads of friends. Right?
you sure like to leave out the facts don’t you donkey! well donk the real fact is all you do is complain about what other people have and you don’t! you breed negativity and loath in self pitty and bitterness. hey donk why don’t you rub that little chrystal ball of yours and see if it knows when you will get a life!hah.also from now on you will refer to hankster as “YOUR DADDY”!!!!!!!!
Fact:
“Forty-one percent of the State general fund budget is earmarked for public education, 12 percent for higher education, and 10 percent for corrections. The cost of pensions is about 2.5 percent of total State spending.”
ntheoc says:
Fact:
“Forty-one percent of the State general fund budget is earmarked for public education, 12 percent for higher education, and 10 percent for corrections. The cost of pensions is about 2.5 percent of total State spending.”
\=======================
That is NOT a fact, but pure FICTION.
FACT: Calpers ROI the last 10 years = 2.41%
FACT: Calpers NEEDED ROI is 7.75%
FACT: Calpers is at 70% Funding level- Pensions with less than 80 percent of the assets needed to cover present and projected liabilities are considered “endangered,” while those below 65 percent are classified as “critical” under the Pension Protection Act of 2006.
Surfpippy or johnnybalzey— aka blog troll whack job….. Calpers is back 40% from 08 losses and the avg pension is 25k per an……oh—-er—-ah—- you like to ignore that—- keep your windbag going but try to get out of your tiny apt for air every now and then– or maybe look for a job?
ted kaczynski, or whatver name you’re using today-Calpers is “endangered” there Junior Einstein.
That is a FACT!
“Retirement plans were designed to provide economic security to people when they were no longer able to do their jobs, so they could live out their remaining years with dignity and self reliance, not so they could double their income at the public’s expense, or retire as millionaires at age 50.”
It is time to start re-evaluating the Miller/Milias/Brown Act, the law that allowed the creation of government unions, signed by Jerry Brown in 1975. If we do not limit or disband these PUBLIC unions, they will destroy the state and everything in it.
Fairness is the issue here. Either everyone has access to such plans, or no one.
ntheoc— those facts you have cited from the state budget are correct– in fact almost the exact numbers appear on the Gov.’s website!
What a goofey list– I knew the troll couldn’t come up with 32 really compelling things…..lol zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz blog on!
ted kominski says:
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^^^Troll Alert^^^^^
Cops and Fireman excluded, where’s the reform dude? These fat 3% at 50 hogs are responsible for bankrupting the pensions and budgets cities and counties. You gotta love the way their union thugs/lobbyists keep sticking it to the taxpayers.
OC Radical says:
Cops and Fireman excluded, where’s the reform dude? These fat 3% at 50 hogs are responsible for bankrupting the pensions and budgets cities and counties. You gotta love the way their union thugs/lobbyists keep sticking it to the taxpayers.
====================
LOL @ “hogs”….Amen brother!
They are the new “porkers”!
Calpers is hardly bk—— over 20 years the roi is over 7%–almost 200 b strong—-get real whiners.
tab hunter says:
Calpers is hardly bk—— over 20 years the roi is over 7%–almost 200 b strong—-get real whiners
============================
Calpers ROI 1999-2008= 2,41%
Nice try trough feeder
BOOM!
I work for the DA’s office, first public job, I’m 28 I make a whopping 33k a year and I’m paying over 500 bucks a month into the pension, I took this job after getting my B.A. not because of the salary, but because of the great benefits and the pension, and I also pay taxes like everyone else, I could have taken a job in the private sector for almost 10kmore a year but I liked the benifits, I didn’t make the rules for the pension but people are attacking public employees like they did, I have very little say as an individual in the union.
Chris is it okay for government workers to live better in retirement than the people that pay their benefits?
Is it rght that government unions buy politicians with taxpayers money and then set up obscene pay, pensions and benefits for their members?
At some point honor and integrity has to be restored in our government. Right now greed is in the hearts and minds of most that work for these bureaucracies.
it’s not obscene for the vast number of pensioners….get a life donkey brain…. can’t u come up with anything new?
Exactly Chris
I took a cut in pay 20 years ago to get this job and it’s paid off in spades.
Should I be punished because I made a smart career move? The jobs are out there and always have been.
I worked hard to get here and continue to do so.
ocobserver, donkey and johnny glaze have been owned so many times out here it’s just not sporting anymore– the poor guys are clearly disabled—- leave them be…
Now we have “tab hunter”…Bwhahahahahahahhaahaa
How many gimmick accounts are you going to post under?
I do say-it never gets old spanking you trough feeders
I love making dope trolls like you type away! Blog on snoozey…zzzzzzzz
I have said that I agree, the pension system needs work. However, Donkey if you read Chris post he states that he pays $500 a month into the system. With a salary of 33K that is 6K a year or nearly 1/5 of his salary.
You asked “Chris is it okay for government workers to live better in retirement than the people that pay their benefits?”
The answer is they are because these are the jobs they chose to apply for. I interned in one City for 2 years working two jobs at over 60 hours a week to get the career I have now. I had to, because that is how the system is set up.
Most the professional jobs in government require at least a bachelors degree and experience. These jobs are very competitive.
Even during the boom years with the degree and experience, it took me many interviews and let downs to get hired in the right position.
Due to the rules related to how people are hired in the public sector it takes around 6 months from when a job is posted to start date. Also most job classifications have steps or ranges. For example, I am at the top step for my job classification, granted the pay is good, but in order for me to get any kind of reclassification or raise…someone would need to vacate the higher position or a position must be created.
This is one of the drawbacks in local government…you usually have to move on to move up. There are a lot of mini-glass ceilings that make it difficult to climb the ladder…since it is all a big pyramid.
From what you have wrote you are really gunning for the 3%@50 crew or those at the highest tiers of government. Well that only represents FF, police and the upper management at best.
That isnt to say that my benefits are not generous…but I worked hard to get here, in school and while interning…I feel I deserve it. Having my BA and now my Masters will serve me well, that is all about me and not about me working for the public.
Is it the fault of the public employee that the private sector doesnt demand more from the companies they work for?
Shouldnt those people negotiate better or complain when the boss makes 10-100+ times what they do. Im not sure where you are in the corporate ladder of the company you work for, but you will find as you climb higher the benefits improve, and the compensation gets better.
Instead of complaining be a part of the solution, get educated, work for your local City or County office.
All of that being said, as well as I am compensated in comparison to my education and exp.There are those that are not…mostly the ones that work in Social Services….the things they put up with for the pay and benefits, isnt worth it.
Samson wrote: You asked “Chris is it okay for government workers to live better in retirement than the people that pay their benefits?”
The answer is they are because these are the jobs they chose to apply for. I interned in one City for 2 years working two jobs at over 60 hours a week to get the career I have now. I had to, because that is how the system is set up.
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Your response totally ignores the other half of my syllogisim Samson.
If the root of the system was founded on corruption in the form of unions buying politicians to install obscene pay and pensions for the union workers then the “system” as you have called it is government tyranny and should be desolved.
I am of the feeling that no government pension should be more than $5,000 a month max. If the workers want to save extra in a 401K I have no problem with that. But the taxpayers should not be paying a lifetime salary to the workers they hire, no matter what their job entailed and none should have COLA’s or free medical.
dream on donkey—-wow do you as usual have your facts wrong….free medical? Huh?
Samson– you continue to make solid sense…
If the system needs fixing let’s fix it. Revise the formulas, pick a start date and begin a new tier. But let’s not change the rules in the middle of the game. Especially for those who’ve served the public for many, many years.
I am not certain I totally believe your “spoils system” argument. I won’t discount it either. It is likely that some union groups within government agencies will throw their support behind a candidate, especially if that one has voted for their most recent contract.
The 3%@50 has been around for a long time…it has fairly entrenched into the system. IT is now a matter of competition with other agencies, especially those that may be less desirable places to work.
That being said, that isnt any different than unions companies that lobby politicians to get support for whatever it is that they are looking for. A more recent example of this is how the insurance and drug agencies are lobbying politicians in regards to the health care bill.
CalPers is for the most part self regulated, the profits from investments are used to pay for the pensions being funded. You could argue that the monies being paid by property/sales tax and development income is used to pay these pensions, but that isnt necessarily the case.
I am not personally aware of anyone that has retired that gets free health care, but I guess it is possible. As far as COLA’s are concerned, this is fairly standard with all pensions and social security.
As far as the 5K max, that is probably fine for the vast majority since they make less than 60K in pension anyways, but that is a disincentive for upper management. You would need to substitute compensation…much like you do in the private sector with stock options or matching funds. This is likely a wash, since the cost to taxpayers would likely be the same if not greater.
Samson, the entrenchment has little to do with competition and everything to do with government union corruption.
The Federal government does not have the problem with their unions because they are not allowed by law to side with and campaign for candidates as the state unions do.
California state unions account for most of the money spent on the election of politicians at all levels of government and thus a special inside connection to have their will done by these bought and paid for politicians.
At the very least the state unions should have the same restrictions on elections as the federal unions do.
samson wrote,
“The 3%@50 has been around for a long time…it has fairly entrenched into the system”
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you are correct samson, i have been a firefighter for 10 years now and the 3% at 50 was at my dept when i got hired. it is mostly public safety agencies that have this formula and it is well deserved and needed for p.d and ff’s. you have great comments samson and pretty much you have discredited all who attempt to challenge you. good job!!!