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The double-dipper database
October 16th, 2009, 10:00 am · 68 Comments · posted by Jennifer Muir
Are you collecting a publicly-funded pension in California but aren’t ready to leave the workforce just yet?
Not to worry. The state of California will help you find a job — and a second paycheck from the government.
Some 4,583 public retirees have signed up for “Boomerang” — the state of California Retiree Job Connection program. State department managers can search the database when they’re looking to hire part-time or temporary employees. The database includes each retiree’s employment preferences and skills.
The practice of collecting a pension and simultaneously going back to work for a public agency is known as double-dipping.
It’s not illegal, but it’s come under fire as agencies across the state grapple with how to reform financially unsustainable pension systems that allow public workers to retire young with nearly the same pay they made when they were clocking in every day.
The Los Angeles Times’ Patrick McGreevy analyzed state retirement data and discovered thousands of double dippers across the state:
State records show that more than 5,600 others are drawing double checks, a figure 57% higher than a decade ago. Meanwhile, billions of dollars — $3.3 billion in this fiscal year alone — are being siphoned from the state budget to cover pension system expenses.
Orange County is even hammering out a policy to address when its retirees can return to work for the county — an effort aimed at avoiding “potential indiscretions regarding the use of retirees.”
Meanwhile, the Boomerang database facilitates double-dipping by helping connect agencies with retirees looking for work.
State agencies often turn to retirees when they’re looking part-time or seasonal workers with specific skill sets, says State Personnel Board spokesman Robert Caldwell. Retirees of the California Public Employees Retirement system can only work up to 960 hours each fiscal year.
Marcia Fritz, president of the pension reform group California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility, says the database appears to give retirees preferential treatment “over others who need jobs to survive.”
“I’m not at all convinced this policy is in the best interests of the citizens of California or its economy,” Fritz said.
Caldwell says the database is not meant to offer retirees preference, so much as it provides another avenue for connecting state agencies with qualified employees. He says the personnel board doesn’t track how many retirees are hired through the database or dictate the hiring process at each department. So far, 94 state departments have signed up to participate.
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Well, what do you expect?? Hogs do what hogs do. As long as there is food in the trough they will feast. To the point that their bellies explode. That’s the nature of a hog. Don’t ya know??
wow dude you are an angry disturbed person sad for you…
You must be a real joy to live with!!!
ocobserver……. Hogs huh ? You were the one 2 days ago that said you would take a county job if you were elected. Then after you were ‘found out’ you said ” I would work for a year, clean things up but wouldn’t take the pension” ! Who in the H%ll are you kidding? NO CREDIBILITY. NO HYPOCRITS ALLOWED ! Maybe you should change your moniker to ‘Hypocritter’ !
rock Harmon says:
wow dude you are an angry disturbed person sad for you…
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I thought it was pretty funnny!
Sometimes the truth can hurt Rock.
So what about the military? They retire with pensions and then and get high paying jobs with other pensions - Don’t ya know?? You are nothing but a big blow hard and jealous of the fact that you never would have made it into the big family.
Boots, I was actually in the US military and fought for freedom which turned out to be indentured servitude. Now we have to feed steak to the public trough feeders while the rest of us are forced to eat beans. And if you have to be a legal thief to be in your ‘club’ I want no part of it. My parents didn’t raise me like you. You pay the public mafia unions bribes to shakedown the politicians who strongarm the public. Like racketeers. Legalized roaming gangs. That’s what it boils down to. I know the truth is hard for your feeders to digest. But you devour taxdollars like water through a sieve. hah. Take some of your tax revenue bounty and go buy a pound of integrity!
OCobs - I PAYED into my pensions - both of them for years, and I EARNED every bit of them. My parents raised me just fine, you A$$ - you know nothing about me or how hard I worked. You think you are so perfect and you think you know everything - well, you are dead wrong. You make me sick.
So you ere in the military and fought for freedom - big eff deal. I have integrity, and am proud of who I am and would do it all over again. You had better take a look in the mirror and look at the poor excuse of a person you are.
OCO - with your anger, people do look back to your childhood to wonder about the source of it so it’s interesting that you bring up the way you were raised. . . .
Where did you fight your fight for our freedom?
My guess is OCO stands for ‘over centuries old’ if he fought for our freedom, if that is true, he must have good health care plan too
what freedom you always are talking about, was another country trying to invade us??
I’m fed-up with the same music.
yeah that freedom fighting nonsense is old…
Boots2 says:
October 17, 2009 at 1:46 pmOCobs - I PAYED into my pensions - both of them for years, and I EARNED every bit of them.
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Wrong Boots, you did NOT pay into your pension, and you sure as hell didn’t earn it GED boy.
BTW-it is “paid” into your pension, not “payed”, try to get your past 6th grade level grammar next time you post here.
Boots2 says:
OCobs - I PAYED into my pensions - both of them for years, and I EARNED every bit of them
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Boots, you did not pay, or earn, or deserve your pensions, at least 50% of it was a retroactive gift of public funds.
And it is “PAID”, not “payed”.
I swear-you GED cops and firewhiners would not be able to get hired at Walmart in the real world.
First, the pension plan is not free nor is it funded fully by tax payers. Government employees pay between 6-10 % of their salary to fund their pension benefits. Second, the vast majority of pensions funded by CalPers amount to less than $38,000 a year. Third, there is a vesting requirement, government employees must work anywhere between 5-10 year before they can even vest into the pension system. This requires a certain degree of loyalty that is lacking elsewhere. If the government employee leaves before vesting, they forfeit their pension rights, and only get back what the employee paid into the system. Finally, government employees do not get automatic annual pay raises, some of us have been without any pay raise, not even a cost of living adjustment, for over 3 years. So it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out that you should retire as soon as possible, collect the pension you paid into and get a job elsewhere. Bottom line, if the public agencies actually paid what the private sector pays, no one would be retiring in droves seeking employment elsewhere.
Teachers are government employees and they don’t have to work 5-10 years before being vested. Tax-payer funding of public employee pension plans to whatever degree and then having to do it all over again when the invested money is lost is what is so outrageous. Further, many people seek out public sector jobs knowing the pay is (was) not that great, but the benefits could not be beat. Why wouldn’t government employees be so loyal? In the private sector, you have to actually compete and do a good job to stay employed.
your info re teachers and pensions is totally incorrect— wow—- get it right.
Pension, where do you think government workers get their saliries? You people can not be this dumb!
Pension, where do you think government workers get their saliries? You people can not be this dumb!
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Hahahahah….these are the “best and brightest” gov employees we’re talking about here too!
Pension says:
First, the pension plan is not free nor is it funded fully by tax payers. Government employees pay between 6-10 % of their salary to fund their pension benefits.
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Baloney-many pay ZERO into the fund, and the rest pay less than 10% of the cost-why do you think there is a $300 billion dollar deficit?
Another trough feeder lie.
pension:
Let me pick apart your rant sentence by sentence.
“First, the pension plan is not free nor is it funded fully by tax payers. Government employees pay between 6-10 % of their salary to fund their pension benefits”
First off, your entire SALARY is nothing but tax revenue passed down. So IF you pay into your retirement it is with recycled TAX DOLLARS. You don’t generate a dime of WEALTH to this country. You are a taker, not a giver. And public safety (who get the highest pensions) don’t pay a thin dime into their pensions. And your contributions after 30 years wouldn’t cover 4 years of retirement once you retire and line up at the trough. The taxpayer begins funding your retirement FULLY by year 5. Who are you trying to BS?
“Second, the vast majority of pensions funded by CalPers amount to less than $38,000 a year”
There are 5000 state workers alone in CA who collect greater than $100000 pensions. More than 5000. The average social security recipient gets a measely $12000 or less a year AFTER working all his life to age 65!!! You retire 10 years earlier and collect $40000! hah! Much of which is taxpayer funded!!! Again, stop the BS.
“Third, there is a vesting requirement, government employees must work anywhere between 5-10 year before they can even vest into the pension system. This requires a certain degree of loyalty that is lacking elsewhere”
Yeah, lacking elsewhere (in the private sector) because THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A DEFINED PENSION FOR THE PRIVATE WORKER!!! Only the parasites in gobblement get those!!! Cadillac pensions and benefits!!! The loyalty you describe can be translated into sucking off the nipple!!!
“Finally, government employees do not get automatic annual pay raises, some of us have been without any pay raise, not even a cost of living adjustment, for over 3 years”
Oh, poor baby. Do you have any idea how many private workers have lost their jobs, homes, savings, etc…. in the last 18 months??? TENS OF MILLIONS! And you are pouting because YOU didn’t get a salary increase??? hah! Most county workers DID in fact get their salary increase in the last 3 years. Vector Control voted themselves a 3.25% increase for both 2009 and 2010 when millions of citizens stand jobless!!! All public safey get their salary increases. Who the heck do you work for??? Your claim is largely unbelieveable.
“So it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out that you should retire as soon as possible, collect the pension you paid into and get a job elsewhere”
Yeah, retire at 55 with your $70,000 pension then return to the same agency to collect another $100,000 salary at the feeding trough. IF YOU STILL WANTED TO WORK WHY RETIRE IN THE FIRST PLACE?? Answer: TO RIP OFF THE TAXPAYER FOR MORE LOOT!!! So now you double dip and we the taxpayer have to write you TWO checks instead of ONE!!! hah!!! What a scam!!!!
“Bottom line, if the public agencies actually paid what the private sector pays, no one would be retiring in droves seeking employment elsewhere”
Listen, pal. If you were a brain surgeon you wouldn’t be working for the county in the first place. USA Today actually did a study showing that the AVERAGE public sector worker makes MORE per hour (significantly more) that the private worker. Google the article yourself. You got higher salaries, lofty defined pensions, better benefits and bullet-proof job security and you don’t contribute one penny to this country’s GDP. Not one. You take from the producers and think you are entitled to gorge yourself on steak while they eat beans.
You’ve been owned.
wrong wrong wrong wrong— oc– how can you be so consistaently wrong?
Rock, if oc is wrong, please list what is not true. Can’t say someone is wrong without examples….
For example, the fact that only government workers get defined benefit pensions. Not only do many folks in the private sector, still, get defined benefit pensions, anyone with a defined contribution pension can choose to annuitize their final value. The average historical return of the stock market is 8%, and that does not include dividends. Now guaranteeing this return, as CalPERS did, was stupid - they should have placed at least a few put options on the table to limit the losses.
Robert Chang, I don’t know of anyone currently working for a private corporation or business that gets a defined pension. Statistics show that well less than 10% of the private workforce get a defined pension, and those that do get FAR less of a retirement benefit than gobblement workers do. So your statement has no merit. And OF COURSE their retirement benefit is NOT guaranteed by the gobblement like yours is either. BIG DIFFERENCE. AND those FEW private workers who get a defined pension must work to 65 to collect (a smidgen might get it at 62 but at a incredibly reduced benefit). So don’t come on here and tout half-truths without expecting to get called out.
Robert Chang says:
For example, the fact that only government workers get defined benefit pensions. Not only do many folks in the private sector, still, get defined benefit pensions, anyone with a defined contribution pension can choose to annuitize their final value. The average historical return of the stock market is 8%, and that does not include dividends.
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Trough feeder-your nose is growing again.
Calpers ROI the last 10 years is 2.41%.
ocobserver says
First off, your entire SALARY is nothing but tax revenue passed down. So IF you pay into your retirement it is with recycled TAX DOLLARS. You don’t generate a dime of WEALTH to this country. You are a taker, not a giver.
***********
I don’t understand your logic here. If someone provides a service, shouldn’t he be compensated?
yeah but don’t ask somebody else to pay your salary and then think that you’re entitled to a higher salary, a cadillac pension benefit, premium healthcare, etc..benefits and bullet-proof job security which are all MUCH better than those given to the one who funds YOUR compensation package. That don’t float, pal. Sorry. We didn’t fall off the banana boat yesterday.
I work at Kaiser and we do still get pension, but it is a joke compared to government pension and I don’t even know if it will be there when I retire.
ocobserver, I’d really like to know what happened to make you hate public safety employees so much. You sit here and spout misinformation as fact every chance you get in an effort to discredit honest hard working people. You are a disgrace. When you say that public safety employees don’t pay a dime into their pensions, that’s simply not true. I am a public safety employee. I pay $400-$500 into my retirement every month. You’ll probably say that my salary is paid from tax paying dollars and you would be correct. However, I earn my paycheck…don’t you? If you have a problem with my pension, it’s your right to inquire and make sure that the public isn’t being fleeced. But I think attacking public safety employees because they enjoy a decent pension after spending 30 years risking their lives for you and your family is simply ludicrous. I’m sure you’ll attack me and consider me a part of the collapse of the U.S. economy. All I ask is that you use fact, not assumptions in your argument. By the way, you won’t pay a dime into my post retirement health care eventhough you’ve spouted off saying otherwise. I pay my post retirement health benefits.
And, can I sign up on Boomerang to look for a job?
Put it another way:
“State encourages retirees who want to work”, or rather
“State encourages wider unemployment by encouraging retirees to want more money.”
Boots2, you really are a pitiful piece of dung beetle dessert! Your unwillingness to serve and defend your country is showing, or you would know that the average military retiree HAS to work full-time, even with his retirement. The O-10’s you talk about represent less than 1/10 of 1% of those who have put their life on the line *for you*!
etirpsha - you are full of s___.
etirpsha says:
Boots2, you really are a pitiful piece of dung beetle dessert! Your unwillingness to serve and defend your country is showing, or you would know that the average military retiree HAS to work full-time, even with his retirement. The O-10’s you talk about represent less than 1/10 of 1% of those who have put their life on the line *for you*!
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Boots2 just got a major spanking, I hope he can recover from that owning.
It seems the “double dipping” concept has been distorted like so much of the information. Public agencies are damned if they try save money by hiring retirees at a cost savings compared to hiring a new inexperienced person and paying them full pay and benefits while they learn a job that sometimes takes years to master.
Every service you enjoy and product you buy is paid for in some manner. And then when the private sector messes up, taxpayers get to bail them out while the company executives leave with multi million dollar severance deals and investments.
The hostile vitriolic emotional dumping on this subject is so one sided and disturbing. Some of these people need serious psychotherapy. But then I suppose ythey want the therapists to give away their services for free or they won’t go. Sad — very sad.
It seems the “double dipping” concept has been distorted like so much of the information. Public agencies are damned if they try to save money by hiring retirees without additional benefits at a cost savings compared to hiring a new inexperienced person and paying them full pay and benefits while they learn a job that sometimes takes years to master. Educated and trained employees public employees provide things the public cannot easily do for itself like water service, wastewater treatment, fighting fires, fighting crime, paving roads, controlling flood waters, and on and on. Is there room for improvement — yes. Will it happen by attacking and demoralizing these employees — no. Look to the elected officials who not only approve these conditions but also benefit from them. Not many people know that elected officials get pensions and other benefits because they are treated as “employees” in their agencies. When they vote to improve pensions and benefits, they enrich themselves as well. Maybe they would make more objective decisions if the law prohibited them from having pensions and benefits and our government went back to the original idea that elected officials seek public office to “give back” to their communities.
Every service you enjoy and product you buy is paid for in some manner. And then when the private sector messes up, taxpayers get to bail them out while the company executives leave with multi million dollar severance deals and investments.
The hostile vitriolic emotional dumping on the subject of public pensions is so one sided and disturbing. Some of these people need serious psychotherapy. But then I suppose they want the therapists to give away their services for free or they won’t go. Sad — very sad.
That makes a lot of sense. Good report.
Lil Ali= trough feeder!
Nope — private sector!
Lil Ali says:
Nope — private sector!
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Nope, public trough feeder for sure!
The military pension are another Cancer to the economy. By having all those high ranks full of perks.
for all of you people who are against “our” pensions– go cry some where else. You picked your road for work we picked ours. If you were a public employee you would feel the same way. You people need to shut your mouths and go away. you don’t know what you are talking about.
as for the double dippers….it’s not illegal. Why on gods earth would you hire someone who doesn’t know the business just to give them a job when you could hire someone back part time w/o benefits who knows the job. Get real…..now who looks like a fool???
Not to worry, they system is already caving in on itself. The sooner we go broke, the better.
johnB says,
Not to worry, they system is already caving in on itself. The sooner we go broke, the better
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spoken from a real life true LOSER!!!!!!
And I suppose you think things are getting better? LOL The sooner we go broke the better, the best way to stop an addict is to cut of their drug supply.
JohnB says:
The sooner we go broke the better, the best way to stop an addict is to cut of their drug supply.
=================================
ntheoc will be a very unhappy camper without his pension! Look how unhappy he is right now just talking about the roof caving in.
blaze wrote,
“ntheoc will be a very unhappy camper without his pension! Look how unhappy he is right now just talking about the roof caving in.”
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“the roof caving in”(ntheoc laughing!!) by the time i retire i hope we will have re-negotiated our pensions.i’m thinking 6% at 50 or i would be happy with 7.5% at 55!!! you guys are funny,thanks for providing some good reading it’s been a long 48…24 of o.t today(ntheoc very happy)
ntheoc says:
“the roof caving in”(ntheoc laughing!!) by the time i retire i hope we will have re-negotiated our pensions.i’m thinking 6% at 50
==============================
LOL!!!!
Ya just the public employees get to double dip!!! Look at Major league players when they retire and return as coaches, they get a salary from the team and collect a Major League retirement, (baseball, football basketball.)ect! Maybe we should just fire all the coaches and have the players run the team! Sounds like a “trough feeder”……LOL OCobserver continues to cry!!!!!
major league players aren’t getting paid by the taxpayer, doofus.
try and get up to speed so you can keep up with the rest of us, eh???
What a ridiculous argument. Of course Government is paid by the taxpayers. That is the system that was set up. Stop acting like you pay such an inordinate amount of taxes and grow up. It costs money to operate cities and counties in the manner in which people have grown accustomed. City Hall, Public Safety, Maintenance, Infrastructure,Education etc..It all costs. They may not produce a “widget” , but they keep things moving that the public wants.
714Man says:
What a ridiculous argument. Of course Government is paid by the taxpayers. That is the system that was set up. Stop acting like you pay such an inordinate amount of taxes and grow up. It costs money to operate cities and counties in the manner in which people have grown accustomed.
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Well, you better grow UNACCUSTOMED to the gold plated Cadillac pay and benefits- because the end is near.
yeah they are i have season tickets im a trough feeder and a taxpayer and my ticket prices have increased 20% in the last ten years! LOL! douchbag!
Kevin, you’re a moron, there is an old saying,” better to keep mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open mouth and remove all doubt.”
You should NEVER open your mouth (or type on your keyboard)
There is not a single government job that should recieve over $50,000 in pension.
These people produce nothing, move as slow as possible and are the most under worked and overpaid people in the nation.
The state is not short of money, it has too many PIGS at the top!
And its going to get worse.
Going to get worse-we are at the bottom of hell with these trough feeders, how can it get worse?
Excuse me but annuitants get NO holiday pay, NO vacation pay and NO sick leave pay. Seems to me this saves taxpayers mega millions…plus they get experienced workers that don’t need training which again saves millions ! If it were you who would you hire ?
I don’t know how it works in all agencies, but in mine, annuitant jobs are provided for three reasons, and few are good:
1) Management didn’t see fit to train a replacement before the old one left. In most cases, managers know or should know which of their employees are leaving
2)
I don’t know how it works in all agencies, but here’s my experience from mine re hiring back employees who have retired:
1) managers hire annitants becuase they didn’t train any suitable replacements for needed skills before the old employee left. This is a failure of management if people leave without transferring skills, but it happens more often than not’
2) Management is trying to keep its staffing numbers low, making their budgests look good, and also look like they don’t need as many people as they do, becuase they don’t have the spine to reprimand and get rid of employees who don’t work
3) Management rewards high level managers with annuitant contracts becuase they can. I can’t tell you how many high level managers come back to agencies as a political reward.
I know all about the greed that can exist in the public sector, and I’ve been a speaker against that. I know that there are a lot of posters here who are aganst defined benefit plans, but I have to not only disagree but also talk about the greed of the private sector. The move to 401K’s from pension plans in the private sector was the biggest hoax that was put over on the public. The stock market and banking institutions laughed all the way to the bank, and all the risk was transferred from the company to the worker, and we saw the result of that.
If the business community was concerned with how the money was being spent, I could even possibly agree with that concept of if not for the greed factor that was demonstrated in the private sector - the lavish salaries, the lavish golden parachutes - the lavish spending - the lavish bonuses. My wife’s company laid off people to “help trim the budget.” The next thing they did was give bonuses to the managers who had to do the layoffs. Just how many employee’s jobs could have been saved with the bonus money handed out? Greed again.
This country cannot pull together until it quits valuing the almighty dollar above all else.
i
Jimbo says:
If it were you who would you hire ?
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Someone with half a brain, which would exclude any and all former gov employees
Johnny……. Each and every time you post something you sound more ignorant than the previous time. One more and it’s a world record !
I try my best
What’s everyone worried about? Obama is fixing everything.
in time he will fix alot of 8 sad republican years!
The REAL problem here is that GENERATION GREED is STEALING yet another opportunity from Gen X and Gen Y.
The younger citizens of this worthless country need these jobs so that they can build work experience and someday possibly own a cardboard box rather than be forced to live in the same house with the same GENERATION GREED (parents) who have ruined their future.