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Broken promise? Great Park critics uncomfortable with call for federal funds
July 17th, 2009, 6:00 am · 74 Comments · posted by Sean Emery
What happened to “The Great Park won’t be built with taxpayer dollars?”
Park watchers are asking themselves that question after Irvine Councilman Larry Agran summoned his inner FDR during a recent State of the Park address in which he claimed the project could serve as an “engine for economic recovery”… an engine that would move faster with the injection of a little federal stimulus cash.
“Federal funds at this time would enable us to accelerate our construction schedule by putting even more people to work,” Agran said in his speech. “Let me be clear - we want to be part of President Obama’s economic recovery program that includes billions of dollars for so-called ‘shovel ready’ projects.”
Agran’s high-profile call for stimulus funds has angered park critics, who argue that a promise to rely solely on developer fees was one of the key reasons voters backed the Great Park over plans for a commercial airport at the former El Toro airbase.
A BROKEN PROMISE?
Irvine Councilwoman Christina Shea worries that Irvine leaders are now backtracking on claims that the Great Park will essentially pay for itself, thanks to development agreements with Lennar Corp., which plans to transform the area surrounding the park into housing and commercial space.
That earlier plan was outlined in a 2003 city release that claimed all Great Park costs would be “shared among landowners and developers” and would “not require additional funding by federal, state or local taxpayers.”
“What I am concerned about - and it is a change in direction - is that we were very clear to voters that we would not use federal dollars or state and local tax 
dollars to build the park,” said Shea, who also sits on the park board. “That was a selling point to get voters to support (the Great Park).”
Shea also claims the decision to go after stimulus funds was made without the park board’s approval.
“It’s not that it can’t be on the table for discussion,” Shea said. “What bothers me is that we have our chairman unilaterally making these public statements.”
DOOR WAS ALWAYS OPEN
Agran argues that the original funding plan didn’t bar the use of federal or state funds, but rather noted that the Great Park wouldn’t require federal or state funds.
“We never closed the door on state or federal funds. Why would we?” Agran asked. “We are taxpayers too, and it is kind of foolish to send money to Washington and not ask that any of it come back.”
Irvine leaders already set aside $61 million for the first round of Great Park work, part of an initial 500-acre construction plan that assumes no money from Lennar and no money from the state or feds.
“Nothing in our business development plan for the park requires any outside funds,” Agran said. “We have the resources in our hand right now to keep very busy in the next two to four years.”
So, Agran contends, while stimulus money won’t make or break the first round of development, it could speed up the work - through double shifting of construction - or allow the fast-tracking of parts of the Great Park plan that wouldn’t otherwise be built until years down the line.
PLANS CHANGE
Of course, much has changed since the 2003 funding plan was released:
- Lennar Corp. has put the brakes on its own development plans amid a dire housing and commercial market.
- Increasingly complex and ambitious design plans have caused the Great Park price-tag to swell, from $353 million in 2003 to an estimated $1.4 billion today.
- And, as anyone who has looked down on the remaining El Toro runways and abandoned buildings from the Great Park balloon ride can attest, early hopes that the entire park could be completed within five years of the city gaining control of the property ( mid-2010 for those keeping track) haven’t panned out.
TROLLING FOR DOLLARS
Great Park funding thus far has come largely from a $200 million payment from Lennar, as well as a couple million a year from the temporary leasing of the El Toro land. The park is expected to have about $33 million in unallocated funds left after the current fiscal year.
Meanwhile, the only federal money Great Park leaders have landed is $470,000 for refurbishment of a hangar that Sen. Barbara Boxer got into a spending bill in March. No state money has gone toward the project.
Irvine officials have twice traveled to Washington D.C . in recent months to press their case with national leaders and key congressional staffers, Assistant City Manager Wally Kreutzen said.
A March trip to the nation’s capital by Mayor Sukhee Kang, Great Park CEO Mike Ellzey, Agran and Kreutzen cost $4,500, staff said, while a second trip by Kreutzen in May cost $1,534.
The city is also working with a pair of consultants, the Ferguson Group and Townsend Public Affairs, to identify state and federal funding sources.
WHERE WOULD THE MONEY GO?
Irvine staffers are currently evaluating exactly which Great Park projects would be eligible for stimulus funds. So far the likely candidates seem to be water, transportation and possibly agriculture programs, Kreutzen said.
“The comprehensive design is done, and we know what the park will ultimately look like,” Kreutzen said. “We are potentially ready to go, and could move those (projects) forward more quickly.”
Agran admits that it is likely that the park won’t receive any of the current stimulus funding. But, if lawmakers OK future stimulus bills, Agran wants the Great Park in the mix.
“I think the economy will require it, and we have to make our case,” Agran said.
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Crazy Horse is being built without Federal or State Grants …. and it is still being built.
Does OC want a dirt field for the next 30 years or do we want to get things done at the Great Park?
Time to get these executives out of the office on private jets at a small investment and get funds to complete the job.
Yes Alan, its VERY impotent that they fly in private jets. Using public transportation is beneath them.
The great FARCE,
“Broken” doesn’t even begin to describe the Great Wet Dream. Such a waste…..
That would be Larry Agran’s ‘Wet Dream’… If it involves money, Larry is always ‘Wet’.
The whole vision for the park was formed based on anti-airport campaigning. Back in those days I suspected it was based on false promises and projections. Sure enough OC Register reveals the truth…
Yes, how is a park supposed to generate tax revenue? Irvine Regional Park is right up the street and isn’t generating tax revenue like they touted the so called great park would.
It is a military airport. Convert it into a public international airport, and we will see tax revenues pour in. Right now my parents (who do a lot of traveling) are giving their tax revenue to LA as they are forced to fly out of LAX because OC does not have an International Airport.
The great park was a scam from the begining. It was a land grab so the city could sell out to developers.
All I know is that “if you build it they will come”
Get ready Irvine, once the doors are open on this park the great citizens from Santa Ana, Anaheim, Stanton, Mission Viejo will be flocking in every holiday, there will be traffic, illegal parking, graffiti, filth, the smell flank steak and the sounds of mariachi music, your grocery stores will be filled with people grabbing last minute pork rinds and tortillas.
If you want an example of what I am talking about, try going to Irvine Park on Easter Sunday.
Wow ‘Waiting’,
That’s one of the most racist things I’ve read lately and I’m as white as they come.
Who said anything about Race?
You must be making some wild assumptions, in order for you to think my post was racist you must have assumed that there were a certain race of people that come from those cities and act in that manner.
Shame on you.
That is small-minded and yes, racist.
(1) Irvine is not a sovereign nation, it’s a part of the greater Orange County community. Irvine residents are welcome to the amusement parks, the stadium, and the beaches that are located in other cities; why should those other cities’ residents not be welcome in Irvine?
(2) Which groups are associated with mariachi music & tortillas? Your statement denigrating “people grabbing last minute pork rinds and tortillas” was racist and trying to project on the person who called you on it doesn’t change anything.
Bait and Switch
All I know is they need to do something quick, all the trees they had planned for the park are slowly dying. You can see them when you drive down Irvine/Trabuco, they have been sitting in planters for a couple of years now and they are starting to look terrible.
The City of Irvine should foot the bill for this park on there own, they seem to control everything that goes on with it, the City Council is under the impression that this is a city park anyways instead of a county park.
The whole of America is living on broken promises. Let the dirt stay.
“It is kind of foolish to send money to Washington and not ask that any of it come back.” It’’s this money-grows-on-trees attitude (or more specifically, money is created out of thin air by the Fed) that is ruining our country. Agran should be ashamed of himself. I’ll take the moral high ground over Federal stimulus heroin any day.
Moral High Ground =! Being a Door Mat.
I would rather we send NO money to the feds to be redistributed to the welfare queen states like South Dakota and Mississippi.
great hell hole, should have built a revenue generating airport instead of this revenue depleting park…..Irvine has enough parks, they don’t need a 1.4 billion park…What a waste!
Looks like an airport would have been a better idea. At least it may have been done by now.
Without the development money flowing in, don’t expect much to happen here for many years. By the time we pay the interest on the national “stimulus” debt, universal welfare healthcare, plus all the still coming “bailouts”, we’re not going to have much left to throw at it. The ever expanding design plans don’t help. If it can’t pay for itself, then it mostly won’t happen, just like the high speed rail lines being proposed.
Back then the OCR said it best;
The Great Pork
And you are not a racist when you speak the truth about the obvious. It isn’t illegal Canadians who fill the parks every weekend.
Thank you Marc960 that was who I was talking about.
bob stimons obviously thinks that another race of people other than white act that way.
In my book that is a racist.
amen
Three good points made, Marc.
O.K. But if Irvine takes Federal money from all of us) the City needs to give up complete control of the development. That is what has been the problem all along, Irvine wants to make the rules and completely control the process, but will ultimately take money contributed to by all of us. This proves the old saying “a good tax is one that you pay and I benefit from”. The rule of opposites says, ” a bad tax is one that I pay and you benefit from”. Irvine, give up control of the common areas (you can decide on the local uses that completely benefit Irvine, and lets get it done.
No other entity that took bail out money gave up control, why should Irvine. By the way this is just another example of Agran and Shea grandstanding.
Turn it back to GREAT AGRICULTURE.
I am so sick of Agran. Sick, I tell you. The guy has run Irvine for a quarter century now. And he gets away with it, because half the population is here on H1B1 status and looks at California as nothing more than a Job Fair. So they are wholly and completely uninvolved.
Ohh and by the way…….The money will mainly be used to print up the glossy mailers that are sent out just about every week it seems. “Community Outreach” they call it.
Give me a break. The Great Pork is a microcosm of why we find ourselves in the current situation at the State and Federal levels as well. Government that knows no bounds, grabbing for power and money.
Sadly, we are doomed.
I didn’t have to be a park,it could have been a money making airport. Don’t blame the fed or state for this one! Blame the fools that passed up jobs and tax dollars from an airport.
Did you forget that ETMCAS wasn’t found to be safe for a commercial airport?
Surly a completely unbiased study.
for whatever reason given, it would be much cheaper, faster and cost effective to upgrade the airport than build this park.
Also, all the major jobs “created” to build the park, go away once the park is built. As are all of the “shovel ready” stimulus jobs line up for federal aid.
You might have forgotten. The opposition to the airport went way beyond Irvine.
Yes, your kind have proliferated.
Just how was it decided not to build the airport? Was that Measure W? Even I voted against that measure. It was not because I was against the airport, but because I didn’t like the measure. It was too complicated if the aim was merely to determine whether an airport should be built upon the land.
However, had I known it was that or nothing, I would have voted “Yes”.
“The Great Pork is a microcosm of why we find ourselves in the current situation at the State and Federal levels as well” You are entirely right, every voter that voted down a money making airport without looking at the bigger long term picture is to blame, just like half of the silly propositions on the ballot in this state IT COSTS MONEY but people vote for it anyway and then cry out expenditures. Well folks just order up another box of Kleenex and shut up.
The people of south OC chose a park over a revenue generating airport. LOL live with it and keep paying taxes for a “park” no one can really use.
Bring back the airport. Put it on the ballot. Anyone that thought this “great park” idea was good is an idiot.
If they could just at least restore the golf course I will refrain from cursing Larry Agran, Beth Krom, and Sucky Kang’s names for at least 2 years. Deal?
Every person involved with The Great Farce should be punched in the crotch.
It’s time for a ballot initiative to kill the “great park” boondoggle.
I wonder if we can tear down the park and build an airport? That might solve the park’s problems.
Agran’s lies and deceptions have given aid and comfort to the enemy, namely the pro-airport forces who hold onto the belief that El Toro International Airport will arise from the ashes. His total failure to build the Great Park as he promised now has people in Orange County wondering if maybe an airport was a better idea.
The airport will never happen, because the land is now in the hands of the City of Irvine and developer Lennar. But it’s indisputable that Agran has ruined the city’s reputation with its neighbors, and all of Orange County.
Recall, anyone?
I’m sure if there was enough motivation, and support a proposition of some sort could enact eminent domain in regards to the property.
I would rather see a football stadium. close to 3 near by freeways 5, 405 and 55. The county might even make a buck.
We need a new balloon… the old one is already faded.
The great debacle is more like it. Should have just made it an airport. Big dreams made in a time when everyone was buying. Now its just a dirt field with lots of promises and no money to make them a reality. I can’t really blame the city for looking for alternative funding, it’s not like the developers have any money to give them.
Brilliant, let’s build a tree filled park with a water filled canyon and lake in the middle of a desert. Where is this water going to come from? Has anyone informed that goofy looking fruitcake park designer that Southern California is experiencing a severe water shortage?
So let’s just pretend there is no stimulus…what would you do? Have you bitten off more than you can chew?
What a bunch of crooks. They hood-winked the public and destroyed the runways so they can’t be used in a National emergency. I voted NO! Don’t you YES people feel stupid now? LOL
How does Agran continue to maintan support from the citizenry in Irvine.
His picture was taken at a moment when he was telling the truth. Notice that his mouth is closed.
The lack of a lie does not a truth make.
No Federal Funds. I’m an Irvine resident in favor of completion of The Great Park WITHOUT Federal Funds.
“Agran argues that the original funding plan didn’t bar the use of federal or state funds, but rather noted that the Great Park wouldn’t require federal or state funds”.
Stop nit-piking the dang wording! NO FEDERAL FUNDS MEANS NO FEDERAL FUNDS. PERIOD.
The Great Park project was a complete sham from the very onset. As many have claimed, the whole idea was to simply defraud the taxpayers from building a larger airport that was promising of employment opportunities from many fronts.
Now you have the chairman, requesting Federal funding to support the projects other interest, interest that will add to the current back falls of park plans. Federal funding should not be allocated to a project of this nature for a few reasons…one, intial agreement was to not depend on the state or federal government for assistance…secondly…money allocated should come from the county residents since they are the closest traveler to utilize such facility…third, federal taxes is paid by all tax payers and should not be allocated towrds something that is not promising to begin with. Fourth, job creation to further go extra additions is not long term, and the jobs that could be created simply will not benefit the many unemployed.
The airport held greater opportunity such as airport executives, to the administrators, clericals, security and or policing, restuarant workers, bag handlers, taxi, pilots. U.S. Marshals… you name it, the job was there. What number of jobs can be created from this park. All this park does is open up a great debate in the future of possible illegals working for contractors ( Landscapers ) and transportation, all paid for by tax payers…the very issue that tax payers are trying to prevent now.
I find the Chairman to be lost in the right field.
Lol
I’m just loving it!
My daughter actually asked me what to vote for the day she went..
Being old and wise, I knew that the park would be the worst thing, especially in a desert.
So I told her to vote in favor of the airport…
Now all the people in irvine and lake forest will have to deal with a dirt lot.
Don’t be surprised if the city decides to leave the great park as it is now and just build houses around what’s there now.
The people of Orange County were duped, I know it now just as much as I did when I saw it on the ballot. Your first instinct (and second, mind you) was right, people. Should have made an airport. The area destination resorts, CVBs and hotels would be exercising their influence and dollars for you right now to make it happen. But alas, Freddy got fingered by the developers who couldn’t develop million dollar residential real estate around an airport now, could they? I say screw ‘em all, either turn it back into agricultural land or make it 100% natural wildlife preservation area. Hey Irvine, you could still call it a park!!!
I did some asking around and obtained a copy of the January 28, 2003 press release in which Agran said he wouldn’t use taxpayer dollars. Here’s what it says, word for word:
*****
According to Irvine Mayor Larry Agran, “The funding strategy developed by our city fulfills all of the promises made to the people of Orange County when we drafted Measure W. There will be no airport at El Toro. We will have one of the finest metropolitan parks in America. People will begin to enjoy this magnificent park in only three years after the sale of the property. And, the Great Park will be developed and maintained in perpetuity by private landowners without placing an additional burden on federal, state, or local taxpayers.”
*****
Agran never said anything about “require.”
The press release also quotes Agran as saying the park would be built for $353 million. If you go back to October 2000, when he was running for mayor, he said he’d build it for $200 million. Right now it’s up to $1.5 billion and climbing.
And here’s the last paragraph:
*****
The 165-acre sports park and the first phase of Meadows Park are also scheduled to be completed within this three-year period. All parks are scheduled to be completed within five years.
*****
Here we are more than six years later. There’s no sports park. There’s no Meadows Park. There’s nothing other than a hot air balloon. Fill in your own punch line.
For ten years, Agran has used the Great Park as a propaganda tool. It’s never been about actually building the park. It’s been about using the park as a tool to employ cronies, extort no-bid park contractors for campaign contributions, and flooding the city with mailers promoting himself and his political allies.
The true shame in all this is that the D.A. refuses to do anything about Agran.
Let me get this straight: Irvine and its adjecent suburbs, who for obvious reasons didn’t want an airport in their backyard, now don’t want the park they all voted for either because . . . what? Because somebody has to pay for it? What a bunch of children you Orange County people are.
An engine for economic recovery….
Sure for the city of Irvine. Its bad enough that this scam got voted for. But absolutely Agran should never have had anything to do with it. He has a conflict of interest in the great park as it is not designed to benefit Orange County but rather Irvine.
Now he wants Federal tax dollars for Irvine.
Special place that Irvine is, the entire city is a jackbooted homeowners association.
If you recall an airport couldn’t be built due to the runway configuration unless the Newport Beach airport backers were willing to put up with westerly departures–not likely. Both airline pilots associations made it clear they would only depart to the east.
Correction–should be depart to the west. This topic still ticks me off with the mis-information that came from the pro-airport group–who can forget “children learn better with airplanes landing right over their schools” & “property values will go up around the airport”. Riiiight!
Another pigeon added to the hoards scrambling for the bailout “feed” tossed from the hands of the Fed, courtesy of the taxpayers. Hooray!
Who honestly cares about a park? Geez, Ive lived in OC all my life and probably will never go see the park. I dont want my tax dollars going to it.
Should have made the land into an international airport… with the construction of terminals it would have already been completed and been an instant revenue generator.
We could finally catch an international flight without having to drive up to LAX or San Diego.
You real estate developers with your wishy washy thinking are getting what you deserve.
We’ll just have to see if Lennar can pull it through since this $800 million purchase might have been too much for them to chew.
Keep your hands off my tax dollars… those billions of dollars of stimulus dollars meant to fast track shovel jobs… just think of how many teachers jobs you could save (stimulate) with that money so that my kids can get the education my tax dollars are intended for.
FRAUD
Put some sticks in the ground and grow some tomato plants in that dirt. Your Great Park will never come. All you fools in Irvine have been politically hoodwinked. If we still had Orange Groves rather that all the concrete in Irvine,Orange County would still be a great place to live. All we have left in California that is a sure thing is Sunshine.
Just read story in the OCR after writing last post. 4000 in Irvine without power. And you people are still looking for a park. You don’t even have power. See what happens when you 27 people in a three bedroom house and try and get all the laundry done in the heat of summer.
What, that makes no sense. What do power outages have to do with anything. I guess the next time a power outage occurs at your house we should make fun of you and your family for daring to live in a house.
please everyone take a drive to the great park to take a look at the great fading baloon and their tent. See what you get for $100 million dollars, it is located between the areas they have rented out for RV storage and trash recycling.
I have never seen a bigger waste of money in my life, everyone needs to see this disaster. The great park board needs to be legally removed for misuse of public funds. $100 miilion down the tubes, and $60 million slated for baseball fields.
This isn’t about an airport vs a great park, it’s about a cash cow. City administrators and their consultant buddies realize that as long as they can bill time to the great park, they will have a job. What better way to do this than to get the feds to throw in too!
It also isn’t about getting anything done. In fact, it’s better that NOTHING gets done because more time and money can be spent on ‘planning’ the great park and the longer they will hold their jobs.
One only needs to look at the 241. How many millions have been spent on ‘planning’ and ‘lobbying’ for the great unfinished FTC?
Taxpayers, please write or call the Governor’s office and ask him to sign ABX3 44 and ABX3 45 into law.
ABX3 45:
These changes result in savings of over $200 million (General Fund)
ABX3 44:
This bill freezes the reimbursement rate paid to Level B Nursing Homes (AB 1629 homes), as well as all other long-term care facilities for a
savings of about $95 million (General Fund).In addition, this bill freezes the rates
paid to ADHCs at the 2008 reimbursement level for a savings of $3.7 million (General Fund)
Are you kidding me? WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CARE IF THEY GOT FEDERAL FUNDS, HOW DOES THAY BOTHER ANYONE? Ridiculous!
Also, do you think Lennar all of a sudden decided to put 40% of the land into another entity because things are going so well?? WAKE UP MORONS. El Toro is a 5 billion dollar project and if they half ass it now they will pay more in the future. Mark my words.
Agran will do anything to keep his projects going even at the expense of others. He only cares about himself and his so called vision. The ishuttle is a failed program and the city uses millions of dollars a year to fund the project. During tough economic times, he won’t scrap the project, but he is willing to cut out of people’s livelihood.
This guy is such a huckster.