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Is college cheating state for seniors’ fitness classes?
June 15th, 2009, 4:00 am · 101 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
When Doug Goforth, retired businessman, was checking out Laguna Woods Village in 2007, one of the things that hooked him was the fully-equipped fitness center. “Residents only!” a real estate agent crowed. “Practically your own private health club!”
So imagine Goforth’s surprise after he bought his place, went to the health club on a weekday morning and was told that he couldn’t use it - unless he registered for a Saddleback College physical education class.
He looked around. Dozens of people, basically exercising on their own. It certainly didn’t look like a class.
“Enroll,” he was told. “It doesn’t cost you anything.”
Couldn’t he use his own gym without signing up for community college classes? he pressed. No; it was an insurance thing, he was told. And so Goforth enrolled, so he could use the gym on weekday mornings, because he tries to exercise every day.
What he found was no class in any traditional sense of the word. “What they really do there is, when they sign up a new student, they take blood pressure, heartbeat, show them a routine on weights and are done. This is while 35 other people are exercising,” Goforth said. “But Laguna Woods Village has its own staff there to do that already.”
He pressed on, and learned that:
- While the classes didn’t cost him anything directly, Saddleback College collects money from the state for each student enrolled, and that money comes from taxpayers’ pockets.
- There were four hour-long “classes” at the LWV gym, from 8 a.m. through noon, each day, from Monday through Friday.
- Some seniors were registered in multiple classes.
- Those classes had been going on at LWV for some 33 years.
The more Goforth learned, the more uncomfortable he became. It didn’t seem right to collect state money for such an, er, exercise. And after one or two or three - or 57! - semesters, shouldn’t people know how to use the equipment already? Why would they need to re-enroll in a college class every semester?
“These funds are, by definition, public education funds,” Goforth said. “It bothers me that funds already in short supply are being usurped, I think, unethically.”
Goforth now refuses to register for the Saddleback classes. He wants to know how much money Saddleback College has collected in his name, so he can pay it all back. He has yet to get an answer.
Saddleback says that 1,525 students were registered for at least one of the four classes during the spring semester. The classes “provide life long learning opportunities to the older adult population,” and are supervised by “highly qualified kinesiology instructors who have master’s degrees in physical fitness and years of experience working with older adults.” These instructors “provide an individualized exercise program using a variety of equipment and provide information on health and exercise techniques. These classes are state-approved curriculum and are free to all students,” said a written statement by spokeswoman Jennie McCue. (Read the district’s full statement here.)
We could be way off base here, but the entire episode sounds hauntingly similar to the “phantom classes” investigation done by our colleagues at the Register five years ago. They found that the state’s community colleges artificially inflated enrollment by counting high school athletes - at their regular high school sports practices - as community college students.
That allowed the community colleges to reap tens of millions of dollars from the state - at least $56 million in one year alone. The investigation prompted a state audit and funding cuts; most colleges canceled their courses after questions were raised.
We have asked Saddleback, and the state of California, for dollar details of these “Emeritus” physical education classes, both locally and statewide. We are waiting for those figures, and we’ll keep you posted.
OTHERS COMPLAIN ABOUT FITNESS CLASSES
But on somewhat different grounds. A “Petition for Eliminating Clubhouse One Saddleback Emeritus Classes” - with 312 signatures - was presented to an LWV governing board last month.
The Saddleback phys ed classes “are not in the best interest of our community,” it said, because:
- Residents who want to use the facility during class time must be registered for classes;
- if the classes are full, residents can’t use the facility, even though it is entirely funded by them;
- The financial burden of repair and replacement of equipment due to additional use by non-residents is borne by them,
- Non-residents who take the classes clog the gates, parking lots and equipment,
- “This class is not a traditional class environment in that it is not designed for group instruction. Since there is only one Saddleback College instructor present for the class, most of the students never receive individual instruction either. The Fitness Center Staff is used to assist in the operation of the facility while these classes are in session. Most work-out programs of residents are prepared by this staff outside of class. This same staff operates the Fitness Center in the afternoon and evenings without a Saddle back instructor because there is no additional benefit to the residents in having an instructor there.”
The petitioners wanted Saddleback out; but last month, LWV’s governing board decided people liked the classes, and, with some changes - like adding another college instructor - they would remain.
Goforth is unsatisfied. There’s still no official option to not enroll and still work out. “My solution is a compromise,” he said. “If you get a benefit from taking the Saddleback classes, and if your conscience doesn’t bother you taking money out of public education, you should be free to enroll. But it should be voluntary.”
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What a waste. Thanks for exposing this farce. As Mr. Goforth did, we need more citizens to start asking questions and demanding answers.
We need Mr. Goforth to understand how valuable having Saddleback College faculty at LW to make sure that students are given a safe program to exercise which will improve their quality of life. Go to other gyms and see the difference
Jean
I’ve noticed you have aggressively responded to the various replies and are putting forth a good effort on behalf of Saddleback CC and the emeritus program: Good for you!
I also note, than unlike myself, you don’t provide your last name: I do so because I have the courage of my convictions and welcome debate.
Please indulge me if I make any errors in this response, because I attempting to respond to your various missives.
You begin with “We need Mr. Goforth to understand how valuable having Saddleback College facility at LW………….”
This is a good point, however it isn’t on point. I never said the program wasn’t valuable to some. I maintained (from the beginning) that it should be for those who benefit as opposed to a mandated requirement that every resident enroll only in order to access their own health club during the prime AM hours! I went to both CAC meetings and voiced a neutural position between both sides:’Make enrollment optional.’ Perhaps someone benefits from the first semester, does that suggest they require (or benefit) from continious enrollment? Isn’t that edict creating ‘phantom’ students?
You go on to suggest LW (and or) the Boards have nothing to do with Saddleback - I suppose that may be true, but how does it explain why residents are required to plead before a committee meeting that allows the Saddleback employees to stand by the speakers platform, intimidating any resident (including me) to make a point? As a new resident, I listened to both points of view. “Saddleback classes or no Saddleback classes.” The reasonable compromise seemed obvious; Allow the classes to be an option for those who would benefit. No one gives up anything! The CAC committee presented an obvious bias when while I was presenting this option to the meeting a chairperson asked me “Do you collect Social Security?” (Implying that was the equivelent to drawing Public Education Funds!) I mentioned that I have grandchildren in the public school system and was concerned about their education given the necessary budget cuts. A chairperson responded; “Community College funds are not commingled with grammer school funds,” As though that made it OK - The attending Globe reporter, printing the meeting summary, wrote: “One resident was assured that College funds and Grammer school funds are not commingled.” Of course this has nothing to do with my suggested compromise to make Saddleback registeration optional at our health club. Would you consider this resistence to resident input?
In another reply you correct a responder pointing out that Saddleback doesn’t get $13 per student. Fair enough! However a complete statement would be how much they do get! (Your reply is ambigious; Do they get $14 or….. $6?) My goal was/is to pay the State back for any Public Education Funds drawn against my name, but all I can find out is what it isn’t! Implys dishonesty to me.
I proposed a compromise which was rejected, so whatever happens going forward is the responsibility of CAC and Saddleback.
Please respond.
OC4truth, Amanda, Teddie G, Jan Bolen and — particularly — Jean:
Good grief! Read the article. Your objections and comments have nothing to do with the issue. Good/bad gym facilities, good/bad instructors, good/bad practices within the healthclub and/or Laguna Wood, good/bad mailing out of class schedules !!!! ???? Do you even have a clue what’s being said here? These good/bad benefits issues have nothing to do with the core of the matter.
Jean, lift your eyes upward–out of your own little world. Look at the bigger picture. Of course it’s a good thing when people–any people–can avail themselves of resources to get their needs met. But THAT’S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!
It’s about misappropriating and manipulating funds targeted for legitimate education. It’s about falsifying information to manipulate state funds–an illegitimate activity. Jean–calm down. No, the LW Healthclub is not illegitimate. The act of claiming that the people who visit the LW Healthclub are Saddleback students is illegitimate.
It’s about falsifying information to make it look like Saddleback College has more students than it does in order to be eligible for state funds that would not otherwise be available if enrollment numbers were smaller.
Doug, maybe you can correct me here if I’m wrong–but I also believe having higher enrollment numbers potentially qualifies institutions to benefit from other resources. When I attended on-campus, legitimate Golden West College classes, I was astounded at how doggedly staff worked to have pristine attendance records. When I inquired, I was told that if schools don’t report every single “head” for every single attendance, a school’s ability to apply for aid, qualify for grants and receive perks disappears.
(Incidentally, for many years now, essentials such as books for the library, video equipment, computers, chalk and chalkboards, have become labeled “perks”–generally, teachers have become responsible for supplying everything out of their own pockets!!)
So what does that mean? Let’s say a school with a student body of 1,500 wants to apply for a $200,000 grant, but there’s a required threshold number of students (let’s say 2,000) necessary to be eligible to apply for that grant. The school would benefit from finding ways to claim that they have more than their 1,500 students.
When Saddleback claims that 500 people who walk in the doors of the LW Healthclub are part of their student body, they can then be eligible to apply for the $200,000 grant. That’s dishonest.
Jean–calm down. This has nothing to do with whether the healthclub is good or bad or safe or beneficial or helpful or useful or any of those things. This has to do making false claims. It has to do with intentional manipulation to produce a false outcome–beneficial, in this case, to Saddleback College.
What is amazing to me is that Laguna Woods is, by definition, comprised of seniors–in some cases, very senior-seniors! I am a bit younger, born in 1948. Aren’t all of you people “my parents”? From the generation of the The Great War, the Depression, the generation who was appalled, shocked and horrified at the way the Hippies comported themselves, i.e., tearing down great American Institutions, confronting authority, etc. You folks who are in that age group were horrified at the breakdown of civility, shocked at rule-breaking, disgusted by the “me-me-me” attitudes of the young. You all claim to be the bearers of accountability, responsibility, and particularly you claim to be the proponents of truth and honesty–to know right from wrong.
So many seniors complain and regale against illegal immigrants. That they “are taking advantage of the system”, “manipulating things to get free services”, etc.
Do you think this Saddleback scheme is honest, straightforward, responsible, truthful? How do you justify, plain and simple, telling lies? If you walk in the healthclub door and sign your name on the roster, you are participating in a dishonest scheme. Pure and simple. And it turns out that that simple act allows Saddleback to comport their business dishonestly.
I understand that members were doing this unknowingly until Doug came along to expose the scheme. But now that you know what is really going on, how can you support it?
What’s needed is to stand back and take a look at what the core of this discovery means. It means that many people, when it serves their personal needs, are willing to compromise their values by employing tactics such as diverting their eyes, creating “straw dogs”, or just flapping their jaws to obscure the fact that something dishonest is occurring.
Looks like a huge example of “Don’t pay any attention to the man behind the screen.”
Doug. Thank you for following your heart to really do the hard work to get to the bottom of a situation that ultimately has less to do with the dollars involved than with challenging people to examine their personal commitment to living an honest, straight-up life.
Marie Martin
Saddleback College does not receive any grant money based on numbers of students. In fact any grant money received is due to the improvement of quality instruction such as in the Parametic program or nursing instruction, Grants are received on merit not attendance. The number of students registered in the LWV firness program are not made up students. They are legitamate registered students who regularly attend the classes. They are required to sign in and attendance sheets are not made up names or altered in any way. If you registered in this class you would know this. It is not fair for you or anyone else to make comments that you have no idea about what you are talking about. Mr. Goforth etal are a few people who are risking a wonderful class who serve so many. Don’t make comments that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Sorry for a slip of the fingers. I meant “shouldn’t this program be a part of the cut”
Thank you Marie for nailing down the bottom line. Maybe if they find out how much money goes to programs like this they could get it back and re open oneil elementry and a couple other schools that taught real students in need of a real education, you people ought to be ashamed of your greedy selfs
This is absolutely shameful. The administrators of the program should be indicted for fraud and forced to pay restitution for the money they stole from the state education coffers. “Lifelong learning opportunities to older adults…” and “an indivdual exercise program”…give me a freakin’ break!
This is another egregious example of how the CTA and other education related unions are all about money and bleeding as much as they can from the taxpayer.
The CTA has nothing to do with scheduling and teaching of classes. Don’t express ideas that you know nothing about.
Good for you Mr. Goforth! I find it very honorable that you revealed this ridiculous scandal are even willing to pay back what Saddleback received from the State. This would be a good case for the Grand Jury or at a minimum, the CA State Auditor. Perhaps you should campaign for a position on the LWV Governing Board. How stupid and greedy can they be? Sorry, that’s a pretty dumb question, I guess.
somearecrazy,
Thank you for your very well stated comments. This could be going on all across the State and yet it has taken me six months of e-mails, phone calls etc to get any press coverage: While LW/SB were trying to stop me!
The Board has nothing to do with classes taught by Saddleback College.
Yet more Government waste!!!
That’s why no one wanted to pay more in taxes. They know that there is wasteful spending in the system and would rather the budget be scrutinized LINE BY LINE to cut out the fat and frivolous spending.
word
Amanda:
At least you got your word in!
So, why don’t the Laguna Woods residents have to pay for the Saddleback classes? Do retirees get class for free? They are not even going for a degree. So our educational funds are getting abused by non-degree seeking retirees and illegal immigrants. good grief! No wonder our kids have 40 to a class now.
I believe emeritus classes are free to those over a certain age, 55? or so. Not just leisure world residents. Most though are actual classes in a variety of subjects. And they are held in a variety of locations around the area.
Of course another question I have is why the local colleges and adult education programs mail their catalogs to every household in the area. That seems like it must cost a fair amount of money with probably a small percentage of people actually enrolling. If they want to get the word out, a flyer telling of the availability of classes with the web site or phone # would seem to be more efficient use of funds.
There are not a few students enrolling. The program has over 12,000 students enrolled. For anyone without transportation mailing the Schedule of Classes is important to maintain and improve the quality of life for seniors.
If 12,000 students are enrolling, where are they going? Don Greve says grant money is not based on enrollment, so why these inflated numbers? Surley you don’t belive all the old folks are going to classes to improve their nursing skills!
they no longer mail catalogs or report cards, they are accessed via college website
Many older adults do not have a computer. The classes are listed on the college website. Remember that telephones and web masters also cost money
Working the “System”!
Another example of fleecing the taxpayers of this state.
It does not matter whether the fitness trainers have Ph.D’s - the state should not be subsidizing this program. If people need a trainer for several sessions that is affordable. If they need to check their progress occasionally that is affordable as well.
death by a thousand cuts. . .this one small example when multiplied across the state demonstrates why the scope of government MUST be reduced so that it can be monitored.
California’s budget has become a farce of epic proportions - only who is laughing?
Grrrr! and they wonder why the voters rejected 1 a-f. Makes one wonder what other scams they are trying to pull on us; like laying off teachers and cutting classes?
Great article and exposing taxpayers waste of money. OCR, sometimes you get it wrong but there’s time you get it right. This is one of them. Keep investigating and dig deep.
I thought the state was broke. The Governor keeps saying that there isn’t any money left to spend and that there would have to be huge cuts. Will this program be a part of the cuts?
All of the above are great points, but let’s not ignore the fact that this is actually a quadruple whammy for residents of LWV. (1) In addition to our tax dollars being misspent, our facilities are offered free to non-residents as long as they are counted as students in the “emeritus” classes. (2) Not only do non-residents fail to pay LWV a usage fee, (3) they place a huge burden on our facilities for which we continue to pay (as part of our monthly assessments) as well as bearing the full cost of upkeep and replacement. of equipment. (4) Add this to the fact we are shut out of our own facilities while the emeritus boondoggle is in operation. Seems to me a residency check is long overdue and only with compelling data documenting non-resident usage will we have any hope of the GRF board seeing the light, if in fact they ever do.
:You failed to mention that the college pays for the liability insurance as well as the telephone and fax etc.
The collage pays for what??????? Cant our 700 hundred dollar a month laguna woods dues x 23.000 people cover that stuff saddleback is a joke
The State stealing from the State stealing from the taxpayers?
But Ahr nold says, “we have nothing to cut”
Close all recreation classes taught at college level.
Thank you, Mr. Goforth, for being one of the few honest and virtuous people walking the streets anymore. As a nation we have really become a nation of scoundrels willing to take whatever we can from the pockets of others if we can get away with it. No wonder the country is falling apart. What happened to integrity? Did it leave for lunch and never come back?
Sounds like some College Administrators need to spend some time in jail for fraud.
Doug is absolutely right! The Saddleback Emeritus program is ripping off tax dollars from the state. I am very familiar with exactly how much money is being wasted every day to fund the Emeritus program. “Students” are signing in on attendance sheets for days that have not even occured. The State gives the Emeritus program at least $13.00 per student. So if a student has already signed in for a day they do not show up- do the math. It adds up quickly. To me, that does not seem very fair. If this gym is in Laguna Woods Village then why and how can this program make these residents sign up for something that they are already paying for with their association dues. Why not have a gym on the Saddleback College campus for these classes to occur? The campus is plenty big enough. The so-called instructors they provide are worthless. They do not indiviualized anything for anybody. The population, the abilities of older adults, and just the knowledge of exercise has changed so much since the last time these “highly qualified kinesiology instructors” last went to school. And as far as all the committee meetings go, from what I heard, only those who were in favor of the Emeritus Program were able to speak due to time constraints. So if this is the case, then have a meeting where you can hear both sides or select a certain number from each side. In all, I refuse to have my taxes pay for this poposterous thing called a class. I do not want my tax money to go to a program that can be proven they are ripping money from the state!!
It would be a good idea if you got your facts straight. Most of the students enrolled in these classes are LW residents. The expertise offered is not from faculty that just have PhD’s from a long time ago. These are highly qualified up to date faculty who are familiar with drugs and medical issues that the LW staff is not. Having a certificate which can be gotten on the internet does not qualify one to handle fitness programs for older adults. The state does not give the college $13 per student as the rumors go.
many of us, here in the LWVillage community, worked for months to try and change this situation - incuding pointing out that the money spent for us to work out in “our own house’, was money stolen from children’s education. i am aware that the funds for elementary school and the funds for higher education are separate, however, given the state of the economy and the desparate situation Calif. finds itself in, I think the money spent on this program is more than a waste, it is “stolen from the mouths of babes.”
Is all this campaign for getting your husband more hours of work in the LWV fitness center? Who has no credentials in the field except coaching. Can he take blood pressures, know the interaction of drugs and exercise, work with the medical community to enhance rehab?
This is one of the reasons why I left Southern California for Northern California and moved my two children out of the public school mess down there. The public schools are in SHAMBLES and these crooks from Saddleback Emeritus program keep the public school system searching for money and killing our kids futures. I want to personally thank Mr. Goforth for being the one man who saw the wrong and stood up ON HIS OWN for the good. Also thanks to the Orange County Register for writing this story and showing us tax payers what is happening to the funds for our children. The State Controller needs to go in and audit these band of thieves and make an example of them, by making Saddleback payback to the state every cent they received from a LWV resident. Again thank you to Doug Goforth and OCR my online newspaper!!!
The amount of money that was defrauded from the state of California from the “Phantom Classes” was over 3 billion dollars. The sad thing is that Andy Carl (who was the one who was behind uncovering the “phantom classes” ) spent 6 years trying to have the people who stole 3 billion dollars (over 10 years) from the state of CA pay it back and be brought to justice–or go to jail….and the politics were so intertwined that all of those people got away with it! They should have gone to jail but instead they lined their pockets and continue to de-fraud because they know they can get away with it…..I am so upset….
Oh My God! The fleecing of California funds while our elementary and high school teachers get laid off! My son’s school is releasing 10 teachers and adding more studens to existing classes while this program is getting money for phantom students. Take roll like all the other real schools! There should be an investigation starting with the attendance from five years ago and have that money repaid with interest to the state of California Tax payers! Punish these white collar criminals!
For your information roll is taken in all the Emeritus Classes and the state only reimburses the college for those enrolled students who attend class. If they do not attend they receive no money. That is why it is important to take roll. These are not phantom students, Go to the class and see for yourself how many students attend and how roll is taken.
Hello,
My name is Andy Carl, the “Whistle-Blower” in the “Phantom Classes” series of articles by the OC Register approximately 5 years ago. The following are the reasons the community college system continues to indulge in Fraud, Waste and Abuse as cited in the OC Register article entitled “Is college cheating state for seniors’ fitness classes?”:
a) OC Superior Court Judge Ronald L. Bauer, whose children were involved in the same types of activities as referenced in the “Phantom Classes” articles, dismissed Case No. 02CC18921, Carl v. Coast Community College, after violation of multiple sections of the California Code of Judical Conduct (ref. Motion For Judical Recusal, Sec. I-A),
b) Then California Attorney General Bill Lockyer, whose spouse was a named defendant in the action (ref. Motion For Judical Recusal, Sec. II-B), engaged in fraud and multiple violations of the California Rules of Professional Conduct (ref. Motion For Judical Recusal, Sec. II),
c) California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was notified twice of AG Lockyer’s misconduct via certified mail, the first time on January 27, 2006 (ref. Certified Mail # 7005-3110-0001-4735-7600),
d) Current California Attorney General Jerry Brown was repeatedly notified of AG Lockyer’s misconduct, both before and subsequent to his taking office as the current AG.
The community college system, though thwarted in the previous high school P.E. classes, has continued to openly engage in fraud ranging from forcing community college athletes to enroll in multiple P.E. classes in which they never attend, to the enrollment of seniors in P.E. classes off-campus as cited in the current OC Register article. The clear message is that those whose charge of office is the enforcement of the law have unclean hands, and will look the other way rather than fulfill their responsibilities according to the oath of office which they took.
Respectfully,
Andy Carl
Qui Tam Plaintiff, Carl v. Coast, Case No. 02CC18921
The Saddleback College classes are not phantom classes. Each student is enrolled and attendance is taken when they come to class. Come and see for yourself how the system works. You shouln’t be speaking out and comparing these classes with the other classes you site at Orange Coast. Students in these classes come to class, are instructed by the faculty member there and continue to maintain and improve their strength and cardio-respiratory function which reduces health care costs. Certainly anything that can be done to reduce those costs out-weight any other tax supported programs. Think about it!!!!
This program sounds pretty bogus all around. Of course there are many emeritus classes around the area that I think are real classes. I think my parents took some years ago. I think my Mom took photography classes and learned to print her own photos with some beautiful results (this was before digital photography became so popular).
Since they distribute the catalogs to all residents in the area I’ve glanced through it to see the listings. Again, I wonder why they distribute the catalogs to everybody since probably only a small percentage of people are really interested. Seems like a waste of money, not to mention the trees used to make all that paper. The high school adult ed programs also distribute the same way.
Congratulations to Mr. Goforth! This is yet another scam exposed by an average citizen that seemed so innocent it escaped detection by professional taxpayer advocates. It would seem the scope of this rip-off would demand an inquiry of the board of regents, at the least
This is totally heartbreaking! How can they get away with this? It’s good to know that there are people like Mr. Goforth who are willing to stand up and take the time to do what is right instead of just ignoring the issue. Thank you Mr. Goforth for bringing this to our attention. I have two young children in the public school system and every year we as parents raise money in hopes of preventing our teacher’s from lay-offs due to lack of funds. With teacher lay-offs, our child/teacher ratio would be 30 to 1, which is ridiculous! It’s sad to know, that our children have to suffer at the expense of greedy thieves. This must stop immediately!
I am absolutely fuming with anger at the IGNORANCE of the “reporter” who wrote about the kinesiology classes at Laguna Woods Village (which also take place regularly at Saddleback College). That reporter and the people who replied about the “so called waste” of the State’s money have NO idea of the vast amount of help the teachers and the classes have been to people who are older and have physical disabilities or have the need to maintain strength and flexibilitiy.
Although I am only 62, I lost my left hip to a Staph infection four years ago. With that and arthritis in my right hip my mobility has been severely compromised. While I did graduate from a wheelchair, to a walker, to a cane… I still couldn’t walk well with any kind of normal gait. A physical therapist told me about the Kinesiology classes at Saddleback and they pretty much turned my life around!!
I took a combination of pool exercise classes (of which - ironically - there is glowing praise in the same issue of the paper!) and stretch exercise classes, and weight training (which is what is being described in this stupid article!). The teachers who are involved in these classes are HIGHLY TRAINED in just this kind of healing physical activity. They are highly motivated, and caring people who are very knowledgable in helping people with age or physical disabilities for whatever reason, and they have helped many, many people!!!!
There are regular sociable ‘get togethers’ of the many people who have been benefited by these classes and exercises. These are people who have had strokes, been in accidents, have back problems or other kind of mobility affecting problems. It is inspiring to see the improvement in physical condition and ability to do common activities which we all take for granted. Believe me, there is NO waste of money here!
The weight training at Laguna Woods Village is an outreach of these valuable efforts and I’m sure if you were any kind of regular attendee you would see the effort and knowledge that goes into this program. I am absolutely dismayed at the warped image and sensationalism of this article .
Perhaps the reporter might benefit by going to Saddleback College (in the Fall Session when there are more people attending) and seeing the people who are most benefiting by this program and actually talking to the instructors who have spent so much effort and dedication into actually HELPING people! Myself included!
Jan Bolen
As a resident of LW I totally agree. The college faculty has the expertise to provide a safe and medically sounds program which the LW staff does not since most of them are residents adding to their income with no training at all.
Jan Bolen: I am also a resident of Laguna Woods and while I am sympathetic to your health problems, I just can not understand why you would write such a caustic reply “…” the IGNORANCE of the “reporter”??? Please, reporters report they don’t ‘create’ situations: I respect your views, even though I dissagree. Please let me explain who I am as one of your neighbors: I am 70 years old, I have an aortic aneurysum, high blood pressure, three degenerated disks in my lower back that cause constant pain. I experience muscle tremors, depression, dementia and difficulty moving as a result of Parkinsons disease. However I don’t think the taxpayers are responsible! As we age and our activities are diminished it is common to request (demand?) services and ’social intercourse’. We feel alone and turn inward, selfish.
I have learned that reaching out to help others, fight injustice and just try and do the right thing is the best medication. While I can’t assure you this will improve the world I guarantee you it will bring joy to your life…. All I proposed at the CAC meeting was a compromise: Let residents voluntarily sign up as emeritus students as opposed to mandating registration for access to our own facility - They refused! Whatever happens as a result is their responsibility, not mine.
Respectfully
My signature is on the petition submitted to LWV governing body. I have been a resident of the “Village” going on 20 years and have been using the gym on a regular basis for 19 of those years. The population of our community has changed in that our newer residents are more aware of the need for physical fittnes and frequenting a gym is part of their life-style. This has resulted in an increase in our own residents using the gym on a daily basis. Having non-residents enrolled in these “classes” has resulted in a backup of residents actually having to wait to use their own equipment. The situation has become extremely frustrating because our complaints have been directed to deaf ears, both within our gates and at the College.
Since the longest time spent on weight lifting equipment should be 10-12 repetitions I cannot imagine that the wait would be long. Treadmills are limited to 30 minutes per person as are the other pieces of aerobic equipment. This is an old argumet that has been around for years but does not hold water.
I am a former employess of the gym at Laguna Woods Village. And I can tell you for certain that having that Saddleback classes in the gym are a complete waste of tax payers money. It is true that upon a persons first time enrolling in the class they are able to sit down and have a 1-1 with the Saddleback instructor to have a program designed for them. What they fail to tell you is that a majority of the time it takes a person 4-6 weeks before they can finally get in to see the Saddleback instructor. Then to top it off when the day and time for the appt comes the Saddleback instructor is usually late becasue the are busy doing an number of other unproductive things. For example chatting with other about what they did or are going to do on the weekend, sitting down drinking a diet soda, talking on their cell phone and or the gym phone, and oh yes my favorite one talking about how bad someone looks, how bad someone smells or how they dislike someone in the class and they dont like helping them.
They also fail to mention that the Saddleback instructors rarley are there on time and rely on the Laguna Woods Village (LWV) gym staff to open the doors and check people in. Also the instructors on a regular basis leave the class early once again leaving LWV gym staff in chare of the class.
Now let me start on the actual exercise programs written by the Saddleback instructor . They are all basic cookie cutter routines. Meaning they are gaving the same routine out to everyone they sit with with just a different variation of the exercise given to the person before.
I can also recall when they taught an early morning circuit class. The Saddle back instructors had no control over it everyone just went in and did there own thing.
Another Item that they fail to mention is that their attendance records are padded, Meaning that they mark people there even when they dont show up. The instructors dont just do this for one day but they do for everyday. How do I know this you might ask. becasue I have personally seen the instructors at the end of the semester take the roll sheets and mark that every student was there a majority of the time. I also know this becasue the Saddleback instructors had asked me to help them do this on several occasions.
If anyone has any question I would be more than happy to answeer them for you.
I just hope that one day those Saddleback instructors will be out of the LWV gym and quit being such a drain on the tax payers pockets as well as the states budget.
This is comments from a very unhappy, fired employee. None of what he claims is true even his name.
Oh yes one other thing I forgot to mention. In my time working there I can recall a specific incident that happened on a Tuesday morning I believe it was. To make a long story short a student in the class was sitting in a chair when he went unconcious. I noticed this right away and got on the phone to call 911. Where was the saddleback instructor, in the back coroner of the gym talking on the cell phone. Once I was able to get her attention by yelling for her she asked me what she should do. I informed her to check the student if he was still breathing. Once she checked she replied no. I told her to start cpr but she failed to do so. The only thing she kept doing was asking the student if he was ok. OF COURSE HE IS NOT OK HE IS NOT BREAKTHING. Fortunatly the medics arrived and handled the situation.
Now if this is what you call HIGHLY TRAINED, in regards to the Saddleback instructors then anyone in those Saddleback gym classes is in some real danger.
I happened to be in the fitness center at the time of this incident and the comments stated here are totally untrue. Check the incident reports as to what really happened. The student did have a pulse and did not need CPR and the PCM employee did not want to call the paramedics because he said that it was a Saddleback College class and it was up to the faculty to do it. One needs to hear the whole story before making conclusions. He was fired shortly after this incident.
In reposnse to Jan Bolen’s comment, I am sorry life has been a struggle and I am glad you have overcome your obstacles. However, fraud is fraud no matter how qualified or unqualified you are. If these “highly qualified kinesiology” instructors are “fluffing” the attendance sheets (which they are) to get more money from the state, then that is wrong. I hate to tell you that there are many people out there who are very highly qualified but are corrupt people- it’s amazing what people do for money. I am a resident and I am positive that if any resident were to come into the gym during the non- Saddleback hours, the staff would be very happy to help anyone with or without a disability. They are plenty qualified and very knowledgable as well. In my opinion I just do not see the need for Saddleback to be in my gym- which I pay for- for something the PCM staff can do. The PCM staff and Saddleback instructors do the same job, just different hours and much different pay!
This is BullCrap!!! This is going to be a big lawsuit……………….
This kind of wasteful spending is especially sad given the state of the economy. Teachers, administrators and transportation personnel (all essential to the well being of our children and the future of this country) are loosing their jobs and/or having their wages cut. I have been privy to s similar situation involving Saddleback. As a profoundly hard of hearing man I registered for a lip reading course through Saddleback which was held at Florence Sylvester Memorial Senior Center. I paid my registration and unit fees as a regular student of Saddleback. I attended the class which was overcrowded with elderly people who have been taking this class every semester just to have something to do. There had to have been at least 50 people in a very small room with little ventilation, too few seats and no safe exit in the event of an emergency. I was told since I was the only non-emeritus student I would have to do several special projects to earn credit. I attended about 3 sessions and had to withdraw because there was absolutely nothing worth while being taught … this class was more a social engagement for people with too much time on their hands. I don’t know how much money Saddleback has been funded for these emeritus students over the years but I can tell you they aren’t learning anything. They are, however, enjoying a valuable social network through educational funding by taxpayers that should be paid for in some other manner.
This does not surprise me one bit. Saddleback continiously over charges students for books, parking passes, parking tickets, & classes. I just dont see how a textbook can cost up to
$500.00 with state money going to wasteful classes such as this.
Publishers of textbooks decide the price of the book, not the college.
OK i agree with the article, but not this comment. Saddleback does not overcharge for books because Saddleback does not own the bookstore it is a private company, as a former student there and currently at a University I can tell you the price is just as bad at other campuses. Parking passes? They are the same price as surrounding junior colleges. Parking tickets? Then buy a parking permit. The price of classes is the same price as every other junior college in California $20 a unit. Also what textbook is $500?
This is one of the reasons I moved from So CA to New Mexico because of taxpayers money being spent unwisely.
It is appalling how easy it is for laxity in spending government money becomes, when no one is minding the store.
Only in California!!! Shame on you!!!
It is sad that the educational system is losing teachers & cutting subjects. then to hear about this kind of waste……….
Where else is this happening? and for how long?
How long has this been going on for? Surely Mr. Goforth isn’t the first person to expose this scam. I wonder what happened to the others that have asked the LW Board the same question? How much $$$ has the LW Board raked in over the past 20+ years and where has the money gone to? Thanks Mr. Goforth for bringing this to our attention. Hopefully the OC Register digs more into this story.
The LW Board does not receive any money from the state.
The world needs more people (watchdogs!) like Doug Goforth; and the OC Register (and all other media outlets) need to be publishing information like this.
This is fraud, pure and simple. Folly. Boondoggle. Dishonest. Simply wrong. No other way to describe it.
This makes me curious to learn how many other bogus “programs” are in existence. I would like to see the OC Register do an in-depth series on these kinds of issues, in their printed version, as well as on line. I hope this particular story makes it to the printed version, so many more people can see what’s going on.
This is important. Our state is financially strapped. Some think we’re on a sinking ship. While I don’t know if our situation is that dire, I am sure that maintaining dishonest programs such as this one that Goforth uncovered, are part of our problem.
I might be mistaken but wasn’t there something in the OCR a few years back about the same type of situation with the community college (Rancho Santiago in particular I think) having open auditions (anyone in the world who wants to audition - not just the students) for their “school plays” then requiring the selected cast to enroll in the college’s drama class and giving credit for being in the play, rehearsals, etc.?
This is extremely frustrating. With all the sacrafices we are being asked to make and willing to make this seems unethical at the very least. The program can be called anything ….but the underline truth is that it appears to be a scam and should be stopped immediately. Those who are responsible should be held accountable.
Outstanding job to Doug for bringing to light this very shameful situation. It really makes you wonder just how much of this corruption is present throughout our state AND COUNTRY. After reading this article, I hope people find the courage to be more proactive, as Doug was, when bearing witness to these kinds of injustices. Too often we choose to just look the other way! Thank you Doug for all your hard work!
This is NOT about how qualified the Saddleback instructors are or how much benefit the LW residents are getting. Don’t let Saddleback’s defense obscure the real issue!
It’s about Suddleback college raking in money (state education funds) by artificially increasing the number of “students” by way of automatic (or even forced) registration. Those who need special attention for their ailments and think enrolling in this program is the way to go (e.g. Jan Bolen) are the only ones legitimate.
Saddleback is having instructors sign up residents as students of saddleback college to use their own gym. Isn’t there a better use of “highly qualified kinesiology” instructors?
OC4truth, Amanda, Teddie G, Jan Bolen and — particularly — Jean:
Good grief! Read the article. Your objections and comments have nothing to do with the issue. Good/bad gym facilities, good/bad instructors, good/bad practices within the healthclub and/or Laguna Wood, good/bad mailing out of class schedules !!!! ???? Do you even have a clue what’s being said here? These good/bad benefits issues have nothing to do with the core of the matter.
Jean, lift your eyes upward–out of your own little world. Look at the bigger picture. Of course it’s a good thing when people–any people–can avail themselves of resources to get their needs met. But THAT’S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!
It’s about misappropriating and manipulating funds targeted for legitimate education. It’s about falsifying information to manipulate state funds–an illegitimate activity. Jean–calm down. No, the LW Healthclub is not illegitimate. The act of claiming that the people who visit the LW Healthclub are Saddleback students is illegitimate.
It’s about falsifying information to make it look like Saddleback College has more students than it does in order to be eligible for state funds that would not otherwise be available if enrollment numbers were smaller.
Doug, maybe you can correct me here if I’m wrong–but I also believe having higher enrollment numbers potentially qualifies institutions to benefit from other resources. When I attended on-campus, legitimate Golden West College classes, I was astounded at how doggedly staff worked to have pristine attendance records. When I inquired, I was told that if schools don’t report every single “head” for every single attendance, a school’s ability to apply for aid, qualify for grants and receive perks disappears.
(Incidentally, for many years now, essentials such as books for the library, video equipment, computers, chalk and chalkboards, have become labeled “perks”–generally, teachers have become responsible for supplying everything out of their own pockets!!)
So what does that mean? Let’s say a school with a student body of 1,500 wants to apply for a $200,000 grant, but there’s a required threshold number of students (let’s say 2,000) necessary to be eligible to apply for that grant. The school would benefit from finding ways to claim that they have more than their 1,500 students.
When Saddleback claims that 500 people who walk in the doors of the LW Healthclub are part of their student body, they can then be eligible to apply for the $200,000 grant. That’s dishonest.
Jean–calm down. This has nothing to do with whether the healthclub is good or bad or safe or beneficial or helpful or useful or any of those things. This has to do making false claims. It has to do with intentional manipulation to produce a false outcome–beneficial, in this case, to Saddleback College.
What is amazing to me is that Laguna Woods is, by definition, comprised of seniors–in some cases, very senior-seniors! I am a bit younger, born in 1948. Aren’t all of you people “my parents”? From the generation of the The Great War, the Depression, the generation who was appalled, shocked and horrified at the way the Hippies comported themselves, i.e., tearing down great American Institutions, confronting authority, etc. You folks who are in that age group were horrified at the breakdown of civility, shocked at rule-breaking, disgusted by the “me-me-me” attitudes of the young. You all claim to be the bearers of accountability, responsibility, and particularly you claim to be the proponents of truth and honesty–to know right from wrong.
So many seniors complain and regale against illegal immigrants. That they “are taking advantage of the system”, “manipulating things to get free services”, etc.
Do you think this Saddleback scheme is honest, straightforward, responsible, truthful? How do you justify, plain and simple, telling lies? If you walk in the healthclub door and sign your name on the roster, you are participating in a dishonest scheme. Pure and simple. And it turns out that that simple act allows Saddleback to comport their business dishonestly.
I understand that members were doing this unknowingly until Doug came along to expose the scheme. But now that you know what is really going on, how can you support it?
What’s needed is to stand back and take a look at what the core of this discovery means. It means that many people, when it serves their personal needs, are willing to compromise their values by employing tactics such as diverting their eyes, creating “straw dogs”, or just flapping their jaws to obscure the fact that something dishonest is occurring.
Looks like a huge example of “Don’t pay any attention to the man behind the screen.”
Doug. Thank you for following your heart to really do the hard work to get to the bottom of a situation that ultimately has less to do with the dollars involved than with challenging people to examine their personal commitment to living an honest, straight-up life.
Marie Martin
Don’t you think that you should enroll for this class and really see how it works? Grants are given on merit not attendance. Obviously you have no idea and are not in education. Maintaining ones health reduces state and federal costs because it reduces health care costs. Please stop making comments that you know nothing about.
Don Greve:
I did enroll (as required for admittence during AM hours) and was told: “Sign up for all four classes and then you can come in anytime and don’t worry you don’t have to attend any classes, this is just for insurance purposes.”
If grants are based on merits and not attendance, why is so important to take attendance? Who cares who attended? According to you only those who merit something or other count. You say no roles are inflated, and if you haven’t attended you should not speak up. How many have you attended, and did you match the number in the room with the number on the attendance roster?
Everyone should read this response! It explians this issue COMPLETELY AND IN FAR BETTER WORDS WORDS THAN I AM CAPABLE OF!
THANK YOU MARIE MARTIN!
Idiot, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant and controlling. The Idiots activity is not confined to any special field of thought or action, but “pervades and regulates the whole.”
He has the last word in everything; his decision is unappealable. He sets the fashions of opinion and taste, dictates the limitations of speech and circumscribes conduct with a dead-line.”
Ambrose Bierce. “The Devil’s Dictionary.
Hi Doug,
For someone who is living in Laguna Woods less than 2 years you really did a damage to important part of our community. I paid my taxes for as long as you and I feel entitled to the funds the state has provided for senior education and fitness.
Your comments has caused us loose a program that has helped so many people for over 30 years because Saddleback has had enough with all the nastiness and insulting of a wonderful education program.
I know you thing of yourself as “doing th
Hi NF,
Please read the article and the replies carefully and then ask Bob Hatch (CAC Chairperson) or anyone who attended the meeting(s) what I said: There were two points of view expressed, one for Saddleback and one against - I proposed a middle ground compromise that was ‘class’ registration should be OPTIONAL FOR RESIDENTS! They repeatedly refused and I was ‘investigated’ as a ‘troublemaker’ THINK ABOUT THIS!
Whatever happens now isn’t my fault and if canceling the classes is the right thing to do, then they should be canceled! And yes, I think I did a good thing as a citizen of California! We have a budget crisis! (Or haven’t you heard?)
Respectfully
I have taken many Emeritus classes over many years but not at Leusure World. The classes have been excellent and the instructors were very good. The classes have helped me stay physically fit and healthier than people who don’t take fitness classes. Attendance was always taken. I regret that a Leisure World problem may make a change for the worse in our Emeritus classes. Please settle your problem at Leisure World regarding your gym use and let us continue to enjoy our classes off-campus as we always have done. I don’t feel we are steaing any tax dollars from the state of Ca.
Sincerely, Rosemarie
attendance was always
We are taking the class in Palmia and are very happy to have the ability to exercise. Working out, helps our bodies and the reduces the need to see a doctor. We paid for years taxes and hope to enjoy some of the benefits now. Please don’t cut the Emeritus classes.
If one REALLY has a problem with registering for FREE for a FREE class, go somewhere else for the four hours that the college is at Clubhouse One teaching FREE classes. You do not need to register to use any of the pools, or the Gymnasium, or the Community Fitness Center, but you do need to sign a liability waiver and a medical waiver with LWV and there are no college instructors there to assist you.
As for any money ($5? $2?) the college may get from the state, the alternative is that our seniors (who have been paying taxes their entire lives) get charged $$$ instead of getting a FREE class? Is that the right answer? I think not.
Sorry if you don’t like it, but the Laguna Woods Village Board has spoken, and the classes stay. If you don’t like that, replace the Board.
Regards to “I want my ‘FREE’ class:
In that FREE seems to be the focus of your reply, I’ll respond to that: What part of mandating enrollment in order to access a health club that (as a resident) I already pay for is FREE? What part of drawing ANY funds from the taxpayer funded “Public Education Funds” is FREE?
On the off chance you have been on another planet and aren’t aware of what is going on, WE HAVE A BUDGET DEFICIT!
And by the way, I am also a senior “who have been paying taxes their entire lives”. and I will wager whatever you want that I’ve paid more than you!
Sorry if you don’t like it, but the “Laguna Woods Village Board” isn’t the final authority.
See you at the “FREE” health club!
I sent a reply earlier that questioned the legality of these types misdirections of public funds, and it was not accepted. Is there some sort censorship here?
Jim:
No censorship (or much of anything else) here!
A free class is one that is FREE. Not paid for by the State!
I thought the Register was going to follow up on this apparant waste of public funds. Is the State really trying to save money or not? Why has there been no articles written about the State’s position on this?
Dear Daisy D.
Good question! I have made several calls to our (70th) district representative’s office and have spoken at least twice with Senator Mimi Walters office: When I asked why no one ever got back to me. I was told……… (ready?) “everyone is busy working on the budget.”
(I wish I could make up stuff this funny!)
Perhaps more citizens should call! Senator Mimi Walters @ 949.457.7333
According to some of responses, people taking the classes think they are getting benefits from the State that they are not. The State is paying for the names on a register to an administrator to fund a program the people at the clubhouse have in place and paid for. If those roles were not inflated by the residents, how many people would be required to run this program?
I can’t believe there is any argument here and I can’t believe I sat here and read them all. There is only one reason to dismiss the compromise; and that is simply a matter of money. If no money was exchanging hands then Saddleback wouldn’t care if the residents were enrolled or not.
This whole thing is a shame and ridiculous. Just remember this is not about cutting the emeritus class, but instead about having the right to not sign up for it.
If you have no problem taking the tax payers money for something your dues are supposedly already paying for, so be it. Just be kind enough not to force others to join you on that path.
BD:
You have verified (for me) that there is after all, intelligent, clear thinking people on this planet…….. I was starting to worry!
THANK YOU!
Well put bill
Having lived in California for several years and knowing Mr. Goforth, I called and asked what he thought might be the reason California doesn’t have a budget and can’t seem to get one. He said, ” I don’t know , of course, but perhaps it’s related to the fact that our Governor drives up the cost free tax bonds when this happens. ( The interest California has to pay as a result of this crisis.) Then, as a patriotic gesture, he invests millions in 25 year bonds with a yield of 6% FREE of Federal or State taxes. If you know of any better investments in this economy, let me know. I’ll buy them.”
Tell the “guvenator” that the deeper the hole the harder it is to get out - if you ever do. A state that is so broke, should be cutting off the fat and getting down to the lean.
How is everyone tonight?
JR
In California, the state is broke and we senior citizens feel ‘entitled’ to draw down Public Education Funds for our physical therapy (because we paid income tax) and some jerk is trying to stop us!
How are you tonight?
dg
I hear ya….IOU’s to pay debt. At least the California Public Education Funds are endless….Ohh that is right they are not! Do people know about this in Laguna Woods? Good job dg!
Other than that im good.