- NEWS
- SPORTS
- Reading between the hash marks: Rick Neuheisel 7 minutes ago
- Ducks go to shootout to douse Flames
- UCLA's 10 most notable wins over USC 3 hours & 56 minutes ago
- Flames' Iginla serves as inspiration
- BUSINESS
- ENTERTAINMENT
- LIFE
- TRAVEL
- OPINION
Same-sex measure rankles polling places
November 4th, 2008, 12:39 pm · 56 Comments · posted by Tony Saavedra, Register investigative reporter
With voting down to the wire, critics and supporters of Proposition 8 are fighting like, well, an old married couple. So emotional is the debate that several times this morning police were called to polling places to settle problems involving the same-sex marriage measure.
It seems in some instances, Democratic poll watchers were confused with anti-Prop. 8 campaigners — and police asked everybody to leave.
Reporter Sam Miller , who is spending election day with the local Democrats, said “No on 8″ advocates were booted this morning from Don Juan Avila Middle School in Aliso Viejo. Principal Shawn Lowman tells the Watchdog that he asked the folks to leave because they were walking around campus, handing out fliers. Steve Bolinger, an attorney for the Democratic Party, said the group is legally allowed to campaign on campus, as long as they are 100 feet away from the entrance to the polling area and not bothering any classrooms.
“School officials have a tendency to want to panic and kick them off the property,” Bolinger said.
That appears to be the case at Newport Harbor High School in Newport Beach, where police were called to disburse Democratic poll watchers who were accused of campaigning against Prop. 8. Democratic officials said poll watchers merely monitor the voting list and contact party members who have not voted. Poll watchers do not campaign or approach anyone, they said. But Newport Beach police asked them to leave.
At SeaCoast Grace Church in Cypress, junior high pastor Cody Surratt said church officials asked poll watchers to hit the road as well as anti-Prop. 8 folks who were handing out literature. Church staff also took down “Yes on 8″ signs that were planted on church property.
“We wanted our campus to be a neutral environment for people not to be hassled,” Surratt told Miller.
In Fullerton, things got tense at Temple Baptist Church when three people campaigning against
Photo by Allen D. Wilson, Daily Titan
Proposition 8 refused the pastor’s order to leave. The campaigners were well past the 100-foot limit from the polling area, but they were still on church property. Registrar Neal Kelley (far right, with Jeff LeTourneau of ‘No on 8′ on the left and Democratic attorney Steve Bollinger in the middle) pronounced the problem a matter of private property. Police agreed. But the leaflet-bearing trio maintained that, at least for the day, the entire church - not just the polling area - was public.
As of 12:44 p.m., the church was weighing its options.
RELATED COVERAGE
- Obama, McCain marathon at the finish line
- More O.C. voters use the mail to cast their ballots
- Outcome in doubt over gay marriage ban. How are you voting?
- Check out this interactive guide to our online election coverage
- Tell us your Election 2008 stories
- Presidential poll: Who are you voting for?
MORE ELECTION COVERAGE (complete coverage here)
TOPICS: President | Congress | Ballot measures | Prop. 8
LOCAL RACES: North County | Central County | South County | Schools
MORE: Recent election videos | Voter guide | Today’s election photos
56 Comments
Leave a Reply
-
ADVERTISEMENT
-
Follow this blog:
-
More from OC Watchdog reports-
ADVERTISEMENT
You can follow this blog: on 
I was there for this…and everyone cheered us on….NO ON 8!!! HB Rider you’re close minded!
Stop creating issues for voters and scaring people away from the polls.
Go out to the public street and hold your signs there and stop trying to block people from voting.
I believe the anti prop 8 campaigners at the Temple Baptist Church in Fullerton are correct about the area being public property on election day. Once you agree to let the place for elections, you have to accept this. I don’t believe campaigning of any sort should be allow on election day - period. By then, if people haven’t made up their minds, they’re too stupid to fill the ballot out anyway!
I volunteered this morning to do this because there is a lot of voter confusion on this issue. Several people I talked to were planning on voting ‘yes’ for gay marriage. We made sure they knew the difference — all at over 100 feet away from the polling location.
At no time was anyone scaring voters. Period. We also did not argue with yes supporters.
All of us had a 4 page document from the Secretary of State which states that this activity is perfectly legal under California Law. Sorry, Prop 8ers, you weren’t organized enough or you could have been out there too.
The No on 8 propaganda throughout this campaign was that this had nothing to do with influencing school children about gay marriage. The ballots aren’t even counted and the No on 8 crowd is working the school yard for their cause. Unbelievably disingenuous.
Democratic poll watchers were mistakenly confused with anti-8 campaigners?
Mistake? Not likely, not here in Orange County.
I am fine with it being a public property area; however, that entire property is defined as the polling place and the campaigning needs to be 100 feet in either direction of the entrance to the polling place.
I am fine with a campaigner walking into the polling place to view the list of voters that is updated every hour; however, once “inside” the polling place they need to restrict themselves.
i am not affiliated with the democratic party, wilbur. in fact, i voted for john mccain. this is not a republican/democrat issue. it is a civil rights issue.
in one letter to the editor it was said there are to many other issues facing us today then to worry about same sex marriage, so why do we? another letter stated that our morals are fall and directly related it to same sex marriage, what? this has been changing for years with equal rights, women’s rights, gay rights and many other actions dating back to the 50s and 60s. with the divorce rate high and second marriages higher how is that the fault of same sex marriages? the morals of kids are slipping because of their parents (man/woman) not the fact the a man marries a man or a woman marries a woman. Let just let people marry who they want too and lets get to the hard issues like the “war” and energy….
It’s a matter of respect as well as free speech. The churches and school districts offer their facilities in service to the community to facilitate elections. These No on 8 advocates are using them for their own purposes - to advance their cause. Even if it is their “right” to be on the property, show respect for the owners / managers of the property as well as the other voters. “Free speech” is not synonymous with “do whatever I please as long as it’s legal”.
Ok I stand corrected on the 100 foot rule.
100 feet from the room or rooms in which voters are signing the roster and(/or) casting ballot. Section 18541 & 18370
However, I will tell you that if I see people in blocking my way or even speaking to me while I go vote I will change my vote quickly to the opposite of what they are fighting for as I think it is an obstruction to my voting to have to deal with any campaigning as I walk into the polls.
I also noted that there is advertising even here on OC Register that is violating law and does not include who is sponsoring the ads.
Nice to see everyone voting; however, let them vote and be respectful to property lines. I would be inclined to vote the way people are fighting for if they respect voters and keep a good distance (more then the 100 feet required) to allow the process to work.
another letter I read about the “No” on 8 folks is that they are shoving it down our collective throats, but what I see driving around the county, to work, soccer, music etc… is a sea of “Yes” on 8 not to mention the ladies that keep coming to my door with propaganda. so who is shoving their view down who throats?
God only views marriage between one man and one woman and it’s Him who I aim to please. If by chance Prop 8 doesn’t pass, I know God doesn’t view those liberal marriages as a marriage anyway.
I was there too. Except, in the library up on the wall in the highlighted book section was a picture of a book, “My Uncle Henry’s Chinese Wedding”. What was the name of the liar who told us that marriage is not taught in schools? What is the true agenda of these 2% of americans really up to? Vote Yes on 8, stop the deception.
Hey Jen -
God is a myth so who really cares?
Should I care what the Easter Bunny thinks also?
So, according to Angeleyes2008’s “logic” any polling place in someone’s garage “opens up” the rest of their house for “No on 8″ demonstrations?! LOL
I voted No on Prop 8 this morning at the Temple Baptist Church in Fullerton and saw the police there talking to the No on 8 volunteers.
It seems that when there is a measure on the ballot where churches have gotten so involved, it’s a bad idea to have polling places located inside church facilities.
If the Baptist minister can’t treat both sides equally, they should never agreed to be the polling location.
only if that is who you will answer to when the trumpet sounds kingo. I hope for your sake, you are correct in your assumption.
No on prop 8! Stop the religous nuts’ attempt to write discrimination into our constitution!
Re: your pictures accompanying this article.
Kang, Choi, and the Yes on 8 people on the freeway overpass are pictured in the city of Irvine, not Anaheim. Irvine is not a part of Anaheim, last I checked.
Amen Jen! I could not have said that any better. We’re living for the life after this one, this life is so short in comparison anyway.
I was raised that certain things aren’t anyone else’s business. I don’t agree with exit polls. Who you vote for is no one else’s business. Just like you don’t have to tell a rude person how much money you make either.
Judgment day will be here soon
He who finds a wife finds a good thing
and obtains favor from the LORD.
—Proverbs 18:22
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God’s words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let’s look at what it says.
Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”
1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
So with what Crasy8 said then let GOD sort it out in the end but here on earth let everyone believe what they feel is right in their house and church…
Most people have desided this issue before they go to the polls. The vote is AC or DC. If some mangy dog does something in your yard it stinks. Then if someone puts it in your face at the poll site, it just stinks more.
“crazy8″ like all of your right wing religious cohorts you are confusing a civil issue with a religious belief. Marriage is not a merely a religious entity it is a civil one. You can get married in a church by your pastor but until you sign the STATE approved license and forms, you are not married. Stop trying to impose your beliefs on everyone else. I know you are hoping for a country whose laws are based strictly on religious beliefs…well gues what it does exist…it’s called IRAQ. Careful before you become what you so proudly send our soldiers to defend against.
who cares? either way, it will be challenged again and again in court until the supreme court puts their foot down; one way or the other.
It irks me that people want to push their sides to this extent; leave people alone to vote!
AMEN printguy!
neither side of any issue or candidate should be allowed around polling areas, that’s great that people are passionate about issues and candidates, but keep your passion from turning into intimidation.
There is no right to gay marriage in the Constitution. It is a fiction which the courts are trying to shove down our throats to impose their morality on our society. We have a right to decide such moral issues and traditional marriage should be supported as it is beneficial to our society. Setting aside moral issues, Gay marriage advocates are trying to get some sort of seal of approval on what is an abnormality. What’s next, marital rights for bestiality? [It's love, isn't it?]
“printguy” just one more reason prop 8 is right, read it carefully my friend.
Marriage has always been viewed by society as the religious and/or civil union between a man and a woman, and has always been regarded primarily as a heterosexual institution. This has involved thousands of years of tradition. The length of this tradition has made it unnecessary to produce a clear definition defining it. But, now that this lengthy tradition of marriage is under threat, its full historical force should be leveled in now defining it as between a man and a woman. If homosexual couples want equal protection under the law, that is one thing, but to call it “marriage” is to violate the rooted tradition and meaning of marriage.
Marriage is an institution of religion that should not be state regulated. The state has an institution of it’s own called “Civil Unions”. The state should recognize civil unions between same sex couples, since they should be afforded the same rights under government as any other partnership (i.e. marriage). The idea of marriage should be defined only in the context of religious beliefs and the state should not have any power over what the church deems as appropriate or inappropriate.
Marriage between a man and a woman is the basis for creating and defining a family It’s been this way throughout history, regardless of religion, in ALL societies from primative to developed. It is natural law. It provides the structure for procreating children and then nurturing, educating, and developing them into productive members of society. Each child needs a father and a mother in their upbringing to model both. There is ample evidence that when either are missing, poverty and dysfunction increases (however noble the efforts of the single parent).
Regarding marriage, race is a superficial attribute whereas gender is not. A man and a woman from different racial backgrounds can unquestionably procreate children and provide father and mother models in nurturing, educating, and developing them. Two people of the same sex simply cannot do this basic marital function. For a judge to compare racial differences to sexual differences (or orientation) shows plain ignorance of biological and historical facts, as well as judicial incompetence.
Society needs to improve the institution of marriage, not weaken it. Same-sex marriage would be another deterioration to marriage (after no fault divorce), denigrating it to mere illicit cohabitation
well civil unioned gay couples are not going to stop the raising of children by a mother and father and another point is there is ample evidence that a mother and father create poverty and dysfunctional offspring even when raised as a team… we all forget a man and a woman created along with god the gay person…
~
God is still, and will ever be on the throne.
~
Crazy8’s comments are a little intense but I can’t argue with him. He laid it out very clearly. I’m not so sure homosexuals won’t find forgiveness in some way, but I definitely agree that it is a sine in the eyes of God.
Crazy8, your second comment was even better. Keep up the good posting.
prop 8 will fail tonight, God willing!
jen, fighterj, JoeCinOC, crazy8, etc. — way to use fear to try to impart your fairy tale beliefs on others.
Oh wait, that’s what all religion does.
Wow, prop 8 is a very hot topic!
I can’t say I am married myself, I am a Str8 male, but that aside if people want to be married them being gay, straight, or alien . I say let them take the plunge as some say and have all the “happy times aplenty” they can while on this planet. Anyhow, the info on how far and from you have to stand from the polling area is good to know. thanx and go vote, there is still time. peace and love to all
Joe Blow…fairy tale beliefs huh? Ignorance on any side is unbecoming. You’re not even commenting on the article. I’m guessing that you generally comment without reading the article.
You got to love people who cover their face with glasses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwERvTRFbBE
To crazy8:
A little Bible history for you. In Leviticus, these verses refer to how the Israelites (Hebrews) were to be different from surrounding pagan societies. In order to separate their “being the chosen people” from others, they set out “laws” for their behavior. (The “laws” are the first five books of the Old Testament.) As for my study, the word abomination describes behavior offensive to God because it is not what the Israelites were to do. This behavior is what the pagans did. This nuance, that it is talking about the Israelites, is essential. It refers to a time when a group was establishing a group identity, separate from other groups. As for the Corinthians verse, the word homosexuality is printed in only some Bible version (like the NIV or New King James version). The New American version doesn’t include the word homosexuality. As for the Romans verse, it was written (along with the Cor. verse) by Apostle Paul. Before becoming a Chrisitan convert, he was as a rabbi of the Pharisee sect. He persecuted Christians before his conversion. His writings refer heavily to “the law.” His writing in Romans is discussing the “law.” Look 4 p2.
Many of Paul’s ideas heavily reflect his Jewish training/heritage. The laws discuss stoning adulterers (discussed much more often than homosexuality.) Yet I see no one recommending that we follow this action. Also, the “laws” prohibit tattoos. How many Christians do you know with tattoos? Most Christians like to say they follow the New Testament. Well, the reference to homosexuality really is directed to the Old Testament. Check out Galatians, chapter 3. If you are to follow the “law,” you must follow all the laws or you are a sinner. Or possibly consider this, Jesus’ death released man from the burden of the old “laws.” This is in the Bible. The meaning is improved if you consider context. (An aside, Paul thought we shouldn’t get married.) I have my interpretation from real study-not read and be told Bible study.
Please do not leave voting in the hands of orange county. Please.
Protect Marriage? Really? Oh, you mean the one that has a 50% failure rate? Yeah, I think Prop 8 will solve that problem. Please, clean your own house before you come into mine.
Early Numbers are in for Orange County:
Yes 59.2%
We will see how the night turns out with the rest of California.
I have been a worker for Yes on 8. Our people were denied access in TWO locations that I personally know of…told to leave…when they wanted to check the publically displayed list of who has voted and who has not. This is posted so any campaign can or individual can look at it…and is to be available by law. It is updated for that purpose all day long. One polling supervisor defiantly posted the list on the ceiling so no one could look at it.
I was one of the checkers today…and there were also other checkers there from other campaigns in my area. Everyone was friendly and polite and no one even asked what measure we were interested in.
I checked at 4 different places today and we were treated with the utmost kind by the poll workers. But it wasn’t the case everywhere.
@vivpio
Well, at least you tried to fabricate a “truth” out of your lie in regard to the Bible’s position on homosexuality (and for that matter sin in general).
You’re clearly delusional if you think what Paul called freedom from the law means that the law is of no effect and that people are free to ignore it. That and you forget the words of Jesus that said that your righteousness must be greater than the pharisees etc. The point is, that Christianity says that it is only thru’ Jesus & the Holy Spirit’s work that that righteousness can be attained. The correct doctrine is that the law is not null and void, but that at last it can be fulfilled.
Get over it people, we have separation of church & state for a reason. All you crazy religious people need to learn how to love everyone, isn’t that what the big man upstairs is all about? God loves everyone. If two people want to marry each other, let them. Even if it is taught in schools don’t you want your children to learn not to discriminate or do you want to do all your preaching and love on Sunday’s then hate the rest of the week? I just don’t get it, this is 2008 people get over your higher than though mentality and support one another
I even checked the list and called my neighbors to get them out to vote. That list is public records and used for election reasons.
Nobody should be denied to review it.
Drew
Did I saw ignore it? You do understand this is biblical OT law, not civil Roman law? (Just reading and missing your point like you did with my post.) Paul said that if you follow the law, that you must follow all of them. Jesus was the one that freed you from the laws. This doesn’t mean lawlessness. This is why it is hard to debate with the people who think they have “righteousness.” So being saved is the answer? If a pedophile receives Christ, does he/she get to go to Heaven? Plus, it’s the literalist Calvary types that fabricate. What is fabrication-making meaning from chopped up lines. Is context scary for you, as it removes your preset beliefs? Will the details of history ruin your faith? Again,, why didn’t you tell me that the Bible is the word of God? How did Jonah survive that big fish? How did people live for hundreds of years? Would your world be shattered if you knew that not everything is be read literally or context needs to be considered?
Drew, Read this. I think it makes my point.
Galatians 3:10 “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Galatians 3:23 “Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.”
Galatians 5:1 “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.”
Wow, not so delusional now.
“Slavery” in the above passage refers to the burden of the rigorous demands of the law.
James 2:10 “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.”
Close minded folks bring out the best in orange county.
Here’s a thought: If you don’t like gay marriage, then don’t marry a homo.
Simple huh?
Prop 8 Wins
At this point roughly 478,370 votes remain uncounted. These voted come from various Counties which only 3 seem to be against the Prop in current results (Santa Clara, Monterey and Yolo) which will gain roughly 53,636 No and 44,452 Yes Votes. This is not enough to counter Kings, Imperial, San Bernardino, Riverside, San Benito and San Diego yes votes which will add 389,240 Yes and 228,718 No Votes.
The Prop Wins! It is amazing how OC Register cannot put these numbers together and are still holding on to hope that Santa Clara, Monterey and Yolo Counties will shock the State.
A shame that the bigots are trying to tell everyone else what to do.
The yes group crawled to new low by bringing children into an adult marriage issue. Elementary Schools are too busy teaching the reading writing and arithmatic to spend time on same sex people. This is sociology.
Adults have been able to marry anyone they wish for the last six months, and it has not changed churches or schools. The only effect has been fundalmentasliists wasting tens of millions of dollars that should have been spent to help the needy. Now, court challanges will waste millions more, and religious bigots will spend time creating hate when they should be worrying about the poor and the famlies of their church members.
Why are we bothering with these people? We must remove their religious freedom. If that religion actively moves to remove the civil rights of a group of people then that religion must be banned. If they want to take rights from gay people they need to lose their rights. How much more must we gay people take from these people. They don’t want us or our families to exist. I say it is high time we gave them a taste of their own medicine. BAN ALL RELIGION.
I am torn over this issue becuase I am active in the gay community although not gay myself. I have dozens of friends who hoped to be able to marry, and believe it is their right. I am a parent, and as such I don’t view a gays right to be documented as to what happends in their bed the same as I view the right between a man and a woman who’s bed experience could wind them up as parents. It is about the children becuase the state should give tax benifits and insurance, health and education incentives to couples that have kids and are likly to have kids by their potential to procreate. I believe the state should reconize Gay couples only in the case where they adopt a child. I believe that the state should allow a cival union, that protects each partner like a business partner, but with the same as the tax benifits given to a man and a woman. Also, I challenge my gay friends and ask if it is discrimnation not alowing just anyone to marry if they may be in love then why is it not discrimination for a brother and sister to marry, a mother and son, a man with 3 wifes? My gay friends, you are acting on emotion and cannot explain the slippery slope that your demands for the state to reconize what you do in bed impose on society. For example, my spouse has died of cancer and I have to live with my mother to raise my child, yet my insurance will not cover my mother as a domestic partner, however my employer would do so if my mother were my girlfriend. Be glad that gays can register as domestic partners here in OC, you don’t know how well off we are, compared to if we were living in an Arab country or communist such that being either gay or a single mother would be a crime. Finnally, I have to say this notion of being discrimated, and lumping gayness in with racisim is over the top, get with the laungage, men and woman do couple together, it is called marraige, it has always been called that, and gays if you are a lesbain or gay man you do have the right to marry the oppisite gender just as everyone else,.