- NEWS
- SPORTS
- BUSINESS
- ENTERTAINMENT
- LIFE
- TRAVEL
- OPINION
‘Nightmare story:’ retirement fund loses $300 million
September 6th, 2008, 7:00 am · 175 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
Each week, The Watchdog asks this question of one elected official:
If you could cut one thing from the budget, what would it be and why?
OUR DISCLAIMER: The Watchdog does not agree or disagree with the opinions expressed by said elected officials; we simply serve as the conduit between you, the people, and the folks you have elected to represent you. As the saying goes, the people get the government they deserve!
Background on Chair of the Orange County Board of Supervisors, John Moorlach:
- Was derided as “Chicken Little” while running for county treasurer in 1994 against Bob Citron, for predicting doom in the county investment pool.
- Has sported license plates saying DULLCPA and - after his predictions on the investment pool came true and $1.64 billion was lost - SKYFELL.
- Represents the second district (including Costa Mesa, Cypress, Fountain Valley,
Garden Grove, Huntington Beach, La Palma, Los Alamitos, Newport Beach, Seal Beach and
Stanton). - Graduated from CSU Long Beach, 1977; Certified Public Accountant, 1978; completed studies for Certified Financial Planner, 1987.
- Was Vice President of Balser, Horowitz, Frank & Wakeling, an Accountancy Corporation; administrative partner of its Costa Mesa office.
- Appointed county treasurer in 1995, after Citron was forced out; reelected twice.
- Won seat on Board of Supervisors in 2006.
- Has had extra training in public finance and employee pensions.
- Active in Old Courthouse Museum society; Orange County Historical Society; Christian Business Men’s Committee; Noble Viking Charities of Orange County; Defend the Bay; Orange County Freedom Committee.
- Married, three children.
WATCHDOG: John Moorlach, if you could cut one thing from the budget, what would it be and why?
MOORLACH: Let me tell you a nightmare story that hasn’t hit the papers yet. Our retirement system, in the month of June, had a net decrease in asset value of $293 million. We contribute $306 million a year to the plan - so whatever 
we’re contributing has already been lost.
So when they lose that amount of money, how is it made up? They’re at a negative for the year to date, minus 3 percent earnings. They have to be positive 8 percent to make everything work. So we’re 11 percent behind. That adds to what the county will have to pay to fully fund pensions for retirees.
In 2001, the Board of Supervisors awarded retroactive pension increases to thousands of employees. It allowed them to retire as early as age 50, with pensions that paid 90 percent of their final salaries for the rest of their lives. That decision could cost the county between $100 million and $200 million.
Before the 2001 vote, our retirement system was fully-funded. A recent estimate found that it’s now underfunded by $2.7 billion. That money would have to come out of taxpayers’ pockets.
We’ve filed a lawsuit seeking to reverse the retroactive portion of the 2001 decision. But, to make sure that something like this doesn’t happen again, we’ve put an initiative on the November ballot that will require the voters to approve pension plan enhancements. We’re saying, bring it to the voters. Anything that creates immediate cost, bring it to the voters. They’re the ones on the hook. They’re going to have to watch services be cut to pay for these benefits. They’re going to look and say, ’Wait, we don’t get this kind of retirement package, we don’t get to retire at 55 with nearly full pay. What’s wrong with this picture?’ Let the unions make their case to the people, instead of just three county supervisors. Let the people examine and approve future increases to employee pensions.
San Francisco County has been doing this for years. The city of San Diego recently approved a similar charter amendment. And San Francisco’s retirement system is 107 percent funded. Ours is 73 percent funded. That makes a dramatic difference in how much they’re paying every year.
I’m saying, hey, this is a tool that is working in another county, why don’t we take the union pressure off of three electeds, the majority of the Board of Supervisors, and have them convince you that they should have an increase? Ballot measures to increase retirement benefits in San Francisco have passed. Most have passed. We’re not saying “Don’t do it,” we’re just saying “Make your case to the 3 million people who’ll be paying for it.”
It doesn’t fix what’s happened in the past, but over the next 10, 20, 30 years, it can prevent more problems. It’s a vehicle that says, ‘Look. Elected officials are under too much pressure from employee unions to give benefits. Benefits that have to be paid by taxpayers, but are now unsustainable.’
I think that’s a word that every municipality has to be talking about - sustainability. How can we continue granting these kinds of benefits and then be able to afford them?
175 Comments
Leave a Reply
-
ADVERTISEMENT
-
Follow this blog:
-
More from OC Watchdog reports-
ADVERTISEMENT
You can follow this blog: on 
Aw, shut the hell up, Fat Boy. Only things you know about have ketchup and mustard on ‘em.
Admit you’re a cop-hater and a bigot. You’ll sleep better.
They should put this up to a vote of the people. Tax payers are the ones paying the bill if the market continue to drop. If the pension plan starts going under, tax payers will have to make up any difference the plan cannot pay out.
Bob Citron did not cause the OC bankruptcy. John and the County Board caused it.
Who is to blame now? Same people?
Hey Lawman:
Wow you are ignorant. You are probably some high school educated pig that is just bitter you cannot get a better job. Leave the finance talk to those of us who know what we are talking about.
Stop being bitter you are middle class, maybe you should have studied harder.
You may patrol OC but we all know you can only afford to leave in Riverslime. Enjoy your ride home on the 91 you idiot.
I am SICK of the public employees unions and their budget busting retirement packages. We the taxpayers are getting the short end of the stick and the bills to boot. Reduce these extravagant retirement payouts to be more in line with the private sector! We don’t get 90% of our final salary NOR have the ability to retire at 50!
Did you take your 100K of taxpayer money for your new office furniture to the voters? Not to mention your increase in salary and benefits? If the county is losing money in its investment plan, that is YOUR fault, not a bunch of retired cops. Look at the bright side John, these retired cops are dying before the age of 65, most are kicking off sooner. Seeing how their widows and children get only 60 percent of their retirement benefits, thats a big savings for the county. Wanna brighten your day John? Take a look at the “in sympathy” page of the last Retirees news letter. A whole page of retired employees kicked the bucket last month. I wonder how many of them because you doubled their insurance premiums and the couldn’t afford to keep it.
sofedup - I’m not in law enforcement but thanks for what you wrote! He really needs to go!
To all the readers who are of the opinion Moorlach has TO GO - Agreed.
And I hope the doorknob hits him hard on the way out the door.
What an incompetent bag of hot air.
>>>I am SICK of the public employees unions and their budget busting retirement packages. We the taxpayers are getting the short end of the stick and the bills to boot. Reduce these extravagant retirement payouts to be more in line with the private sector! We don’t get 90% of our final salary NOR have the ability to retire at 50!<<<
Listen up stupid. We didn’t work in the private sector. Therefore, we don’t care what the private sector does. The folks in the private sector took those jobs to make the big bucks and show off their material crap. The guys in the civil service sector don’t make nearly as much in salary, but have better benefits. That’s why I went in 31 years ago. Now that I have my pension, you’re going to tell me I make too much money?? Hell, you’re just jealous and bitter. Don’t get on us because we had the foresight as young men to look 30 years down the road. Apparently, you did not.
You don’t get 90%, 80%, 75%, or 50% of your final salary, and you don’t get to retire at 50 after 30 years of service with a 90% salary because that’s not the kind of job you took.
More in line with the private sector your ass buddy. Not in your lifetime.
>>>>>Listen up stupid. We didn’t work in the private sector. Therefore, we don’t care what the private sector does. The folks in the private sector took those jobs to make the big bucks and show off their material crap. The guys in the civil service sector don’t make nearly as much in salary, but have better benefits. That’s why I went in 31 years ago. Now that I have my pension, you’re going to tell me I make too much money?? Hell, you’re just jealous and bitter. Don’t get on us because we had the foresight as young men to look 30 years down the road. Apparently, you did not.
Ok, go ahead and take the “private sector” version of your job…go work security at the mall and you’ll see how much the free market values your job. You’re paid more than well enough for what you do. If you want a nanny, try the classifieds, not the tax payers.
“Take the pressure of the pressure of the three electeds…” Are you kidding me? That’s why we put them there in the first place! The Board of Supervisors needs to shut up, grow some nuts, and make the tough decisions we pay them to make. Stop dodging responsibility by bringing every little issue to the votes. Three county supervisors didn’t have a problem trying to shove a colossal airport that wasn’t needed down our throats! Oh, I guess putting the selfish interests of their rich friends in Newport ahead of the public interest wasn’t hard at all. So what if the Board of Supervisors is feeling the heat from unions? Get some moral courage and do the right thing for our county whatever that is in this case!
Let the voters make the decision? Perhaps we should let the voters make the decision on all the crazy stuff Moorlach spends county money on. In fact why don’t we just get rid on his job since he doesn’t want to do the job he was elected to do. County employees (non-sworn) put significantly more money toward their pension plan than people put towards Social Security. Funny how he says the county will have to make up the difference during the down years and fails to mention how the county doesn’t contribute a dime during the up years. If they did perhaps we WOULD be fully funded
Sustainability is a concern. However, lets not make it sound like its the retiree’s fault. “Take aways” are bad any way you cut it. PERS is the largest (wealthiest) retirement system in the country even through its ups and downs. Thats investing; ups and downs. Figure it out Moorlach and take some accountability. Private sector, blame your CEO’s for your misfortune.
“Take the pressure of the pressure of the three electeds…” Are you kidding me? That’s why we put them there in the first place! The Board of Supervisors needs to shut up, grow a pair, and make the tough decisions we pay them to make. Stop dodging responsibility by bringing every little issue to the votes. Three county supervisors didn’t have a problem trying to shove a colossal airport that wasn’t needed down our throats! Oh, I guess putting the selfish interests of their rich friends in Newport ahead of the public interest wasn’t hard at all. So what if the Board of Supervisors is feeling the heat from unions? Get some moral courage and do the right thing for our county whatever that is in this case!
give it 10 years when alot of us private sector people move out of the OC and see how long before the only people living here are the ultra rich or very poor. It is a crime what they do but because we keep re-electing these clowns we deserve what we get. 10 years folks and the chickens will come home to roost. Yeah nevada.
Lawman: what a self-serving obnoxious “public servant” you are. Who do you suppose pays your big benefits? All those private sector folks you deride! Yeah, you got yours but why do you have to be such a j**k about it? I get the same thing but I will never loose sight of where it comes from, taxpaying people you consider fools. I consider them my ultimate boss.
That’s why its called an investment fund; market goes up, market goes down, market goes up, market goes down. That’s why the fund keeps a surplus, for the down times, and averages 10.5% earnings over time. There have been worse economic down-turns in the last thirty years, and the fund weathered them as well. But then, Mr. Moorlach knows this, doesn’t he? After all, he’s a CPA. As for that investment pool debacle in 1995? The debacle was he scared the Supervisors into selling at less than 10 cents on the dollar, forcing bankruptcy. Turns out 2 years later the investments would have made money, and the bankruptcy was just a panic induced by……oh, yeah, Moorlach. Now he is declaring another crisis and throwing more money away to friendly lawyers.
Mr. Moorlach conveniently leaves out he was County Treasurer AND a member of the OCERS board of directors at the time and was a full partner to the negotiations, research, actuarials and the eventual agreement itself, which, by the way, was initiated by the Board of Supervisors. Moorlach was their representative on the OCERS, it was his job to watchdog the thing and he failed. Now he excuses this by faulting greedy unions and “erronious assumptions about retirement patterns”. Who made those assumptions?….Oh, yeah, Moorlach! Hey, John, you know the old saying about assumptions ? They make an ASS of U and Me!!! Did he mention that after the pension agreement for the Sheriff and Firefighters he and the Board voted themselves a 2.75@50 package ? I guess that .25% makes all the difference in the world to that self-serving horn-blowing CPA.
Lawman, who are your employers? Who pays your salaries and pensions?
You said “We didn’t work in the private sector”, but you do work FOR the private sector. Since the tax payers are responsible for your benefits, we should be the ones voting on them, it’s coming out of OUR pockets.
Oldski, I want Moorlach and the board of supervisors to take the same cuts. Cut ALL government pension plans, we cannot afford paying anyone 75-90% of their pay in retirement.
Lawman, I am not bitter, I am just tired of folks who expect taxpayers to fund an all-expenses-paid ride because of a claim of moral superiority.
I went down the “not in the private sector” career path a long time back, taking a track that had a much higher chance of not making it to retirement than any law-enforcement field.
One of the tacit truths then was that government service meant putting the public good as your first priority. I’m not sure when that changed, but it seems very apparent that union leadership and county/city management don’t give as much thought to the needs of the public as they do to offering “competitive” compensation.
As a thought, how do you feel your pay and pension options compare to those of infantry soldiers who are promised a 50-75 percent pension *IF* they live through 20 to 30 years of military service, serving in some decidedly unpleasant places, enduring repeated separations from home and loved ones? How would you compare your pension (and the likelihood of you collecting it) to theirs?
Johnb
do you realize that these men and women that are providing you security every day and night 24/7 do not get to collect SS. They do not pay into it, therefore they don’t get it. They took the job because a pension would be provided, now Moorlach thinks it will make him look good to strip them of what was promised. Don’t worry, when he is done going after the cops and firefighters, then he will come after the teachers next. Just the people that took the thankless jobs, so they could make a difference in this world. I guess you are right, why shoudl we show them any respect at all. Screw them!!!!! But next time your house gets broken into, there is a major fire or your kid can’t pass a test in school, remember that you are the type of person that is making the good quality people that take these jobs move away to other cities/counties that do appreciate them, They will be the towns you want to live in, but not pay for, Remember you get what you pay for. And I for one, want quality in my law enforcement, fire fighting and teachers.
John Moorlach is truly one disgusting public official. His hypocrisy is beyond belief let alone his self-righteousness. I’m not taking sides on this issue. However, I am just sick and tired of this big mouth, political hack acting as if he was brought to this planet by the Lord Himself.
Then vote for the ballot measure in November, I would. Hey, I am VERY grateful every minute for my excellent retirement benefits, and appreciate what taxpayers contributed to make it possible. I hope I gave them 33yrs of excellent service (I enjoyed nearly every minute). I agree, the public, including me, needs better protection from incompetent public servants like the current Board. I’m in favor of changing the rules for the future approval of these plans, of including public approval, but my deal was made, bought and paid for, under the rules of the day. That was always my motto,” Tell me the rules and we’ll all play by them”.
Don’t forget the “hero” fireman get to retire at 50 too. But I guess that’s ok…
lawman, just a suggestion but maybe if you were not so rude, people might take you more seriously.
johnb, I agree, all public employees should take the same cuts.
Unfortunately, the Orange County Retirement System is an exception. Most public employee retirement systems in the state are very well funded and managed. For example, 75% of every pension dollar paid out by CalPERS comes from investment income. More than half of the rest comes from EMPLOYEE contributions and less than 12 cents of every dollar paid out comes from the taxpayers.
It’s true that in the last decade private sector pensions have taken a big hit. Most of this can be traced to the greed of the high-level corporate managers who treat their employees with contempt. However, this is not the fault of the public sector.
Moorlach going to push the panic button again like he did in ‘95, and loose millions of $ and try to make himself a hero. OCERS has made a 10% plus, 5 year annualized return as of June 30th, (FACT)! Look it up on http://www.ocers.org Moorlach needs a better agenda, this one is really weak.
CSU long beach educated. that is the problem. only people from ivy league schools should manage money. a few top state schools graduate people that can manage money. the rest of the folks are not smart enough to manage money. i noticed most people living in my bayshore sub in newport went to the best schools. the rest of the people are not smart enough to figure how to get these properties. no suprise.
Geezer
The men and women of OCSD have contirbuted to this. They had to pay into to the account. Go back and look at the contract negotiations, it will show that they agreed to contribute and DID contribute. Are they going to give them all the money they put into back or are they going to take back their part of the agreement and literally steal money from them? You can not go back and take this away. You may start to negoiate new contracts for new law enforcement, but the ones that have been on the job, you can not take that away from them. I strongly disagree with even trying to take it away from new recruits, I think our quality of recruits will diminish and there fore put the safety of everyone at stake. Not worth it to me. Look at other cities, look at other depts, OCSD is not the highest paid and they have the same retirement that everyone else does. These quality sheriff’s are going to lateral out to a dept that will show them respect. Shame on the citizen of this county for going after them. What ever happened to respecting law enforcement?
Cops, firefighters, teachers, county gardeners … you need to wake up. Do you really think you are SERVING THE PUBLIC when you are draining us dry to fund your own lavish retirement plans. Retiring at age 50 with 90% of your last years’ “spiked” income is outrageous. You seem to have tunnel vision on this issue. You have no Idea what it takes for the average business owner or private sector employee to save for retirement. Or is it that you think we don’t work as hard or risk as much. Years of union manipulation of government officials has resulted in your exorbidant benefits not a free market for your services.
John Moorlach is a hero and the most honorable government official in the state if not the country. He is attacking his own pension plan because he knows it is not right for taxpayers to have to pay for such a lavish retirement plan when they may be going into their own retirement in abject poverty. Where is the good, honest cop, firefighter or teacher who will criticize his or her own pension plan and truly serve the public by calling for a fair plan that will allow everyone, private and public sector workers alike , to have a comfortable retirement.
90% salary at 50 is total pork. Should be 40% at 55 and 65% at 65. Some people here thing there is something extra special about this blue collar work.
It is now over 27% underfunded or about $2.9 Billion. We taxpayers will need to cover that shortage and at the same time try to save a little something for our own retirement.
It’s interesting that even with a 10% five year annualized return the OCERS retirement plan has gotten even further underfunded. It is now over 27% underfunded or about $2.9 Billion. We taxpayers will need to cover that shortage and at the same time try to save a little something for our own retirement.
In the late 70’s through the 80’s California government employee unions lobbied, strong-armed politicians, publicly demonstrated, and declared strikes … all “to get parity with private sector counterparts.
Today, I agree that they should be brought into complete ‘parity’ with their private sector counterparts … including worker reductions of 50% and more, elimination of pensions and retirement plans, reduction and elimination of health benefits, reduction and elimination of ‘comp-days,’ etc. etc.
Government employee unions clamored for parity with the private sector … they should now get the parity they called strikes over!
John Moorlach a hero?? A hero sandwich maybe. The fat slob is a corrupt thief.
As for all the geniuses that think the police and sheriffs are their public servants, sorry folks. Servitude went out with Abe Lincoln. I never bought into that crap.
I won’t address the mongoloid jackass who thinks I patrol OC and live in Riverside. How someone can determine this from behind a stolen keyboard in their Stanton trailer is amazing. Finance talk? I know I do better than you, don’t I jackass……
>>># auntie_green Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
lawman, just a suggestion but maybe if you were not so rude, people might take you more seriously.<<<
Like I give a rat’s ass how you slob cop-haters think.
Stocks, bonds, investments, etc. are not guarenteed. The market goes up, the market goes down. You cannot trust all money in these types of investments. OC should have learned its lesson after the early 90’s.
Where does it say that John was opposed to the Sheriff pension giveaway?
He wasn’t opposed and he was an elected officials who gave it a pass. He is just as gulity at creating this nitemare as Citron’s questionable investments.
Only now, he is saying that we need a safeguard to keep unions from infiltrating the minds of the so-called most conservative supervisors in California.
He give alot of too much credit for the pension giveaway to the police unions because the union pressure was minimal and mostly threats of police officers moving to agencies that adopted the 90% at 50 formula.
He was fooled not pressured. In fact, many were fooled. There were a few like myself who questioned the giveaway in the OC Register.
Why do we need elected representatives when they feel that they should not be held accountable for their actions and need the voters to approve expenditures? What are we paying the 100’s of thousands of dollars for these supervisorsn their benefits and their staff when they just sit back and smaile as officeholder responsibilties goes to the voters.
It is apparent given that John doesn’t mention in this story his support of the 2001 giveaway or his opposition to it that he is like many other Republican hilders in America who can’t admit they made a mistake and take individual responsiblity in it.
some of you do not know the first thing about these pensions its frightening if you work 10-15 years at a city or county job your only entitled to a percentage of your yearly salary about 20-40 percent of that salary depending on if you leave at 50 or 55 ideally 55 you stay longer you get more but everybody gets the same formula which is a problem you should get a good pension if your a cop or fireman and you put in 30-35 years people give me a break and for mr. poorlach i suggest you watch your step about this issue because i read an article about after this was initated you stupidvisors spent 500,000 dollars on office furniture ever heard of ikea be part of the solution not part of the problem not to mention your outrageous salaries.
For the record, Moorlach was NOT a supervisor when this retroactive pension increase was approved in 2001. He was county treasurer, and he urged the Board of Supervisors NOT to approve it. He did not become a supervisor until 2006.
Moorlach is the only public official with the stones to face off these selfish, greedy swine lined up at the public feeding trough. Personally, I look forward to the next country bankrupcy when emergency measures will require deep, deep cuts in public employees salaries and pension benefits. It will be a real knee slapper watching all those fat slops squealing at the trough and chasing their squiggly tails as the slop runs dry! haha.
I don’t work for OC, but I do work for a large city law enforcement agency, where we have a retirement/pension. We pay a portion of each paycheck into this, the city contributes (in place of Social Security taxation), and it is supposed to be properly invested to cover our future payouts. We DO NOT pay into Social Security, and most of us who have paid some into in the past will still not be eligible to collect SSI when we retire. Many of our personnel have also contributed to deferred compensation plans offered to us, only to see that money being flushed away, also. So what would some of you tell these folks that are retiring in the next year or so, have tried to plan, save, and invest through programs offered, only be told “Oops, we’re sorry, you don’t get nearly what you were guaranteed.” Lawman is right, we don’t take public service jobs for the big bucks, the glamor, the fabulous hours and shifts. We work nights, overnights, weekends, holidays, our kid’s birthdays, our anniversaries, etc, etc. - so that you can have police and fire, and other vital city services. In return, we are verbally and physically abused and threatened by the public, regularly sold out by our top level officials, sued, pilloried in the media, etc. Yep, it’s quite the life…but most of us can’t imagine doing anything else. So go ahead and bash us for going out there every day and trying our best to make your city services run as well as possible, and tell us, please tell us, that we aren’t entitled to the retirement fund that we’ve been contributing to.
WOW!
Who is managing the pension fund, Bob Citron reincarnated?
I have no problem with their retirement. only that it starts at 50 to 52. Let it take effect at 62 like the rest of us.
Let’s eliminate all pensions and let them enjoy a 401k like the rest of society. I don’t think it’s the taxpayers job to fund their tee times.
Well, at least now we know ocobserver is just a dirtbag cop-hater. I thought so.
Some of these people make me vomit. You don’t hear a word out of them about the police when the economy’s good. But when the economy’s in the tank, they come after the benefits the police fought so hard for so many years to get.
Absolutely sickening. The reason we are eligible to retire at 50 is due to the fact that a hell of a lot of officers fought for that benefit. If an officer has 30 years in by that time, THEN he gets the big pension. Thirty years is long enough. You goddam people are running around like hens with your heads cut off just repeating rumor.
You don’t like our benefits as compared to the crap you have? Good. Move somewhere else. I’ll stay right here in the good ol’ OC enjoying the money. Make the officers stubborn with all their political muscle…….go right ahead.
Just to clarify, police officers and firefighters may get to retire with 90% at 50 years, but please don’t think for a minute that teachers do. Under our current retirement plan (which we pay 8% of our salary into for our entire career), we could never retire with 90%. In fact, we would have to work until age 70 to receive 80% and I don’t know many teachers who can work until 70. I’m not saying that our pension isn’t good, it is a consolation prize for a lower salary when comparing the amount of higher education most of us receive. It is not, nor has it ever been as good as pensions received by police officers and firefighters. I’m really not knocking their pensions, just clarifying because we seem to all be lumped together.
this is a joke - public employees are so overpaid in OC its sick… but the thing that none of them understand is that they are slitting their own throat. when there is no money left, there is no money left….. lets face it, these employees feel they are the economy, lol, cops and teachers and fireman have always been voluntary - in the end they still will be.
I work in local government, but I am not in law enforcement or a firefighter.
I work what most would consider a white collar job and I think I get paid a good wage. My retirement is 2.7% at 55 meaning I will get 2.7% of my final salary for every year I work when I retire. I do have the ability of using my own money to purchase about 6 years of service. So if I work a total of 27 years and purchase my time…which will cost I think around 80K, I could retire with 90% of my salary. I would be around 58 or so if I did that.
I just wanted people to understand a bit about how the system works for non-sworn government people.
Now, I do know that people that do my job in the private sector get a 20% to 30% higher salary than I do. I also know that most of them have stock options and profit sharing and other bonuses that go along with their job. They also have a larger risk of being laid off when the economy isnt doing so well, but when things are doing great they are likely doing much better than most of your public employees.
The reason I chose public service is that I like working with people, developers and I enjoy the job security that a government job brings. Like I said, I could probably move into the private sector and make a decent amount more when times are good, but I enjoy the stability that I have now.
County and City governments must stay competitive if they want to maintain the best and brightest. When you begin to lower salaries and benefits for them, you will lose them to the private sector.
What will happen is most government agencies will than be required to hire private consultants to do many of the jobs that are currently done by their employees that will go elsewhere. What you lose is the personal touch and the buy in that these employees have.
It would be much like hiring a bunch of temps to run any business, they typically could care less about customer service or truly helping people.
Most government employees wont collect Social Security, or have a large 401K, etc. The pension is typically all they will have to live on.
I will say that it is a pretty good gig. I do have it pretty good.
It is important to understand that as a government employee, you are under much greater scrutiny than many other jobs. I am responsible to the people ultimately, that is my job. Another thing is the ability to advance in government is much more difficult than in other fields. The education requirements are typically greater for example.
I’m not fully justifying the system, it does have it’s flaws. There are loopholes. People who take advantage of overtime and disability, etc.
I just think that in order to get the quality of service that most residents expect, you have to pay for it. You truly will get what you pay for.
If you think that was a lot, wait until Monday.
trs has the IQ of a goat……
Moorlach should put his retirement where his mouth is. He is drawing and has been drawing 2.7 at 55. This is pert neer what the deputies get.
It’s ironic how most law enforcement officers are conservative and vote Republican while these same Republicans that they voted for are trying to screw them over.
And the police don’t work FOR the private sector. The police work for everybody. And that means a hell of a lot more than just the private sector.
>>># jake Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
It’s ironic how most law enforcement officers are conservative and vote Republican while these same Republicans that they voted for are trying to screw them over.<<<
Ding ding ding!! Jake is correct. But we’re learning fast. Many officers these days no longer vote straight Republican without question. We’ve learned that the only time Republican politicians are pro-police is at election time when they want to appear “tough on crime” and they get their picture taken in front of a black and white surrounded by grinning cops.
It’s the Republican Party that has declared war on public safety pensions. Wayne Quint, if you’re reading this, jump in and tell me I’m right.
Lawman. We’re all glad you’re not out on the street with your anger and a taser. Calm down, calm down. Let everyone voice their opinion - it’s the the anger you speak with that discredits your words. Be the voice of reason and expience and you may be heard. May not be, but for absolutely certainty you’re not now. All anyone can hear is that anger.
Do not mischaracterize being a “cop-hater” with a person who is just interested in financial transparency.
There is nothing wrong with Moorlach’s statement. I was initially disturbed by the OC Watchdog’s comments about Moorlach in the past.
In researching the situation, it appears that this column sometimes tilts the impression of the reader. May I encourage you to call Moorlach’s office directly?
Have you?
I doubt it. Don’t form your opinion of someone’s position without calling the office directly.
You may not be far from their position and may be antagonistic for no reason.
>>># Not Even Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Lawman. We’re all glad you’re not out on the street with your anger and a taser. Calm down, calm down. Let everyone voice their opinion - it’s the the anger you speak with that discredits your words. Be the voice of reason and expience and you may be heard. May not be, but for absolutely certainty you’re not now. All anyone can hear is that anger.<<<
Worry about yourself. What the hell do you mean “we’re all glad……” What’d you do………run around interviewing everybody? I run on anger. I see nothing wrong with it. It helps me stay on top of things. Tasers?? What’re you, 25 years old? Hell, we didn’t use Tasers. There was no such thing. You moved when we told you to move. If you didn’t, you got hit on the ass with a nightstick. If you pulled a knife or a gun, we’d cancel your ticket right then and there.
I realize we’re a society of vaginas now, and the law is no longer enforced. But it used to be. Hell of a shame the way things are now.
You worry about yourself. You’ve probably got a full time job on your hands.
As for Strongside, same goes for you. I wouldn’t lower myself to call the fat corrupt slob. But I will work to get him thrown off the BOS. That will happen. Nobody ever made any money pissing off the police.
Wow, TRS, you are a bit conceeded huh? Ivy league doesn’t translate into automatice wealth. The free market let these folks obtain their retirement and the free market will get the rest of us out of the hole. Why do you think this is happening in costa measa, fountain valley, etc…???? In your neck of the woods this type of corruption wouldn’t occur. Leave your pompus ideas out of the equation.
Loving capitolist
OMG this is one of the reasons our country is
headed to hell in a handbasket- friggin over paid
government employees- hey lawmaker
get ready to watch your pension fund go broke
as our country enters into the worst economic
recession since the great depression which
will devastate the city county state and federal
pension funds- GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES
are overpaid overrated under worked parasites
of society- the coming economic recession will
be even more devastating because of all the pie in the sky
pension promises that were made to these ungrateful
idiots- the government payroll is so bloated with
useless positions its downright criminal
TRS youve just reconfirmed what a clueless idiot
you really are— the richest man in the world–
bill gates– was an IVY LEAGUE college dropout–
the IVY LEAGUE GENIUSES you refer to are the
imbiciles who were in charge of such great
companies as BEAR STEARNS AND ENRON-
george bush is borderline retarded and he went to YALE
your IVY LEAGUE geniuses are the idiots who have
brought our economy to the brink of full fledged
depression- hell any high school drop-out knows that
Lawman, you said
“Nobody ever made any money pissing off the police.”
Rodney King made $3.8 million
>>># Johnb Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Lawman, you said
“Nobody ever made any money pissing off the police.”
Rodney King made $3.8 million :(<<<
Rodney King is on food stamps in Rialto, Ca. as we speak. He did not make 3.8 mil. He took home less than a mil which true to the individual, is long gone.
Johnnie Cochran, who thankfully is taking a dirt nap, got the rest. Interesting bit of info for all you trivia fans out there…..The LAPD Four had never been in trouble prior to giving Rodney that richly deserved beating. They haven’t been in trouble since. Rodney on the other hand, was a convicted liquor store robber who had done state time at the time the LAPD flogged him. Rodney has been arrested at least 12 times since that incident by my count. He’s done nothing but be what he’s always been…….trash.
And yet, certain folks regard that piece of dung as a civil rights figure. Makes me laugh out loud……………..or cry.
So…he is right again and people hate the truth…what is new?
Some county buildings are kept so cold that county workers need heaters, blankets, and winter coats in the middle of summer. The county could save money by not wasting electricity.
There are many county workers who work very hard and they help keep county residents safe from criminals and epidemics. Other county workers leave early, come in late, and spend a lot of their time at parties for county employees on county time at the expense of tax payers.
I wonder is there could be some kind of moderator to this forum? Many people here want to have a real discussion. One just seems to want to insult people . It wold be nice if a moderator could delete those posts so people could actually have a discussion.
I think octaxpayer is Moorlach. With self-serving comments like, “John Moorlach is a hero and the most honorable government official in the state if not the country” you have to wonder. If he’s not Moorlach, he needs to take his head out of Moorlach’s a$$.
My question is all the time when the goverment mencion about there is no money for ritirements people they are going to increase or force the people to work two more years, in that way people can support on its way , and the goverment can forgot about for two or more years so what the deal. Maybe in the future we probably we re going to rityre no into we get to the 90’s . So why don’t we change to the 55’s in tha way old people can enjoy the years for the one they work har with out to say the how much the goverment take out every pay check in the whole life.
If you can’t handle it, don’t look at it. It’s a hot button issue. You may think it’s insulting, and maybe sometimes it is, but I call it reality. There’s plenty of insults flying around from a number of posters, but I’m not going to snivel about it.
Don’t expect me to lay down for someone’s uninformed drivel.
Can anyone other than octaxpayer(Mario Maneiro?) and ocobserver(Mike Schroeder?) shed light on what the actual “unfunded liability” is, how it works? Lotsa venom here and little info. Maybe OCR financial guy can brief miss sforza a little, or, god forbid, write an informative article himself?
LawDork is your basic GED educated cop who thinks he is “entitled” to scam the taxpayers.
I have spanked him before and will do it again, and again, and again.
That fat slob of a donut eater should just ride relax in his doublewide trailer and suck down some beer and chips-he is too damn stupid to do anything else.
Oldski is just that, an old, fat PD slob living at the public trough.
It’s unfortunate that all you talk about just cops here, it’s not just police officers it’s the overall pension benefits that various government workers are getting that is a ticking time bomb, law enforcement is one example.
Lawman:
You are a real piece of work. Stolen computer from my trailer in Stanton. Wow you are utterly misinformed. For starters I work in the LA office of a Wall Street bank you moron. Face it PIG…you simply do not know what you are talking about. I bet you are unaware of the liquidity issues the county is currently having with its auction rate bonds. I bet you are unaware that your crappy Pig pension is backed by POBs because the county can’t afford to pay the pension and medical bills for you fat retired sloppy dirty crooked SOB’s Enjoy your statistical early death!
One less PIG for us “private sector folks” to subsidize.
Cool down guys.
On the one hand, we want good men and women working as cops, firefighters, and EMTs to come running to protect us when we need them. Their jobs involve plenty of life-and-death risk, and they earn their relatively modest benefits after a hard career.
On the other hand, as taxpayers we need guys like John Moorlach, who must calculate closely where we stand in funding these benefits. Clearly, right now there is a financial problem we have to deal with.
Two different character types, two different jobs. We need them both.
Welcome to Orange County !!!
lawman & idiot pig, why don’t you two go meet out in the dessert somewhere and end this for everyone else’s benefit. You’re both so full of crap you’ve made this entire thread useless.
idiot has the perfect name and not much else needs to be said other than drop the first three words from it. Lawman, if you are actually a cop you should know better. You’re a lousy representative for the police. To be honest, I think YOU are actually the cop hater and are just posting like this to make other people hate cops.
To “Lawman is an idiot pig”
Sounds like you are well aware of the financial disaster that is occurring in government on federal, state, and local levels.
Please review the OC Watchdog columns on Cal Optima. I believe that there may be a linkage between the poor performance of Cal Optima and the healthcare crisis in our area.
May I offer you one quick piece of unsolicited advice?
Attempting to teach a pig has only two results.
It wastes the teacher’s time.
and
It makes the pig mad.
Care to help out the county by reviewing the situation at Cal Optima?
We need an independent auditor to step in, if Moorlach won’t or can’t for procedural reasons.
It is amazing that Moorlach’s powerful cheerleaders at the O.C. Register never mention his failure to sound the financial and legal alarms as the County Treasurer in 2001 when this alleged illegal gift of funds took place. Rather they continue in their efforts to paint him as a financial messiah and saint, when nothing could be farther from the truth.
This faulty reporting by the Register has allowed Moorlach’s hypocrisy to reach a height that only a true megalomaniac could attain. He continues to demonize the 2001 County Board of Supervisors as well as castigated current board members who oppose him. Yet he never mentions the thousands, and eventually, millions of taxpayers’ dollars he will have cause to be wasted on the futile lawsuit he pushed to be filed to overturn the legally binding contract signed in 2001 with the deputies union. We all need to remember this and take steps to ensure that Mr. Moorlach is lame duck supervisor who has no chance at reelection.
Well, people who call the police pigs are dirtbags. I’m misinformed? Hell, you made keyboard assumptions about me and now you can’t take the heat without going on your period. I grew up in Los Angeles. I have found that people who work downtown in one of the so-called Wall Street firms have no job security and here today and gone tomorrow. Their job depends on how much of the boss’s butt they can get in their mouth.
Nobody in this household is fat, dirty, or sloppy. It’s not tolerated. Speak for yourself little girl.
Lots of cop-haters in here.
Well, people who call the police pigs are dirtbags. I’m misinformed? Hell, you made keyboard assumptions about me and now you can’t take the heat without going on your period. I grew up in Los Angeles. I have found that people who work downtown in one of the so-called Wall Street firms have no job security and here today and gone tomorrow. Their job depends on how much of the boss’s butt they can get in their mouth.
Nobody in this household is fat, dirty, or sloppy. It’s not tolerated. Speak for yourself little girl.
when there is no money there will be no pention…
let’s not forget County employees contributes to their retirement too, it’s taken out of their checks every two weeks like the social security does and even bigger. When the new retirement package 2.7@55was approved, they started taking out chunks of money from their checks too on top of the old retirement contribution deductions. And in fact you private sectors has 401k w/ employer matching not like county employees they get 457 savings without a cent matching from the county. They rely pretty much on the retirement based on the years of service and years of putting up with incompetent bosses. So let’s not all blame the county employees, they had there shares too…..
Taxpayers that do not qualify for county pensions are unlikely to approve increases to a pension system that pays 90% to a retiree at 50, 55 or even 60 for that matter. The fact that the voters don’t already have the control of these enhancements is now unacceptable. I don’t believe the BOS should make this decision at all. It’s a taxpayers decision. As John said, “Let the unions make their case to the people, instead of just three county supervisors.” but I have to tell you, in my case, that is going to be one tough sell.
I eat bacon, hot dogs, ham, and sausage for breakfast.
Take a chill pill and get some decaff “lawman”.
If you are a member of LEO, your behavior on this blog is unprofessional.
strongsidejedi:
I appreciate the advice. You are indeed correct, I am wasting my time trying to show an insipid pig how complex the pension/health care issue is. I have intimate knowledge (due to my profession) of OC’s finances and the situation is DIRE. We are really screwed and no one seems to care. The reason the 1995 Bankruptcy Bonds are named “TEETER Series A-E” is because the I-Banks who underwrote the bonds were not sure that it would fix the County’s problems. The County was literally “Teetering” on bankruptcy again. It was a pun.
I will look into the Cal Optima connection you mention.
As for you Lawman:
Enjoy your underfunded pension. I could care less that you have it because I pay more in taxes than you take home in a year. So go wash and press your “blue collar”. I need to go now…I think your kid is done washing my car.
Cheers Piggy!
Lawman Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Lots of cop-haters in here.
=== ===
No, we dont hate the PD, we hate welfare queens trying to live their life of luxury off the backs of the poor and middle class.
Here is an idea LawDork, if you want to “retire” at age 50 and make more money than when you worked then YOU go out and pay for it it. Not the taxpayers.
Got it loser.
Stop trying to stick you dirty little fat fingers in everyone’s pockets-stealing from the poor and middle class so the greedy few (you) can live the high life off of Cadillac pensions you DID NOT pay for or earn.
Retroactive-do you understand that word?????????????????
strongsidejedi Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 11:00 am
To “Lawman is an idiot pig”
May I offer you one quick piece of unsolicited advice?
Attempting to teach a pig has only two results.
It wastes the teacher’s time.
and
It makes the pig mad.
=== ===
OMG was that funny! Tahnsk for the laugh.
You are correct though-and LawDork is VERY mad today!
“Lawman is an idiot pig”
Thank you for reviewing the Cal Optima situation.
The gov’t backed healthcare system is depositing into someone’s account under Cal Optima.
Those funds are split into a physician component and a hospital component.
The bloggers at OC Register have been posting on this issue of the CalOptima payments to “doctors”.
It is our research that these payments to “doctors” are actually to privately held corporations with no disclosure to Moorlach or the Board of Supers.
The people rely on the Board of Supers to review the use of the people’s money, but the people’s money end up in privately held accounts as payments to the hospitals or to the doctors.
Both are lousy because both lack transparency.
Meanwhile the banks are getting screwed out of under funded accounts because the “checks” are in the mail from state.
Then, the gov’t doesn’t bail out the water when the tidal flood happens.
Hearing the pig oinking about his muddy water is not surprising when Animal Farm has Napoleon running it.
Yup. Scumbags and cop haters. As I thought. Amd now the 290 registrant with a state prison history known as JonnyKat chimes in.
By the way….to all you cop hater geniuses. Nothing for the police and sheriffs will go unfunded or unpaid. People are afraid of the boogieman at 3 in the morning.
My fund is PERS. Read it and weep. I’m having a great time making you girls dance. I have uncovered you for what you are……scumbag cop haters who are too afraid to handle criminals by yourselves.
After reading all these postings, I’m totally in love with Lawman.
I can’t wait for my pay raise in October. How about you?
Kat Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
After reading all these postings, I’m totally in love with Lawman.
=== =====
Hate to break the new to you, but unless you’re a gay male you’re going to be out of luck.
Lawman Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Yup. Scumbags and cop haters.
=== ===
LawDork = GED cop, and hating his life.
John Moorlach spouting off about his opposition to pension plan increases is as credible as Alaska Governor Sarah Palin’s claim that she is a champion against federal earmarks.
John Moorlach was a staunch ADVOCATE for the pension changes he now derides. So Watchdog, when are you going to ask him about that?
Regardless of how I feel personally about this issue, it’s interesting that the media chooses to coin the title of this article “Nightmare”…
Lawman:
I appreciate you exposing the ugly truth of the caliber and character of our public servants.
Please do us one last service. Pass away quickly so that we can reduce the amount of unfinanced liabilities that we from the private sector must bear for the g-job sector. “G” used to stand for government. Now, it stands for “gimme.”
But, before you relocate your pathetic existence to hell, please remit the tollroad fees you haven’t paid.
Thank you, and have a nice day.
sorry i dont want to put 32 years of service in the hands of somebody that also voted for barbara boxer and diane finestein and pelosi hillary etc etc. wake up losers and leave my pension alone go get a real job losers.
Chris Prevatt Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
John Moorlach was a staunch ADVOCATE for the pension changes he now derides. So Watchdog, when are you going to ask him about that?
++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Errr..no he wasn’t you lying dirtbag.
>>>>Teri Sforza, Register staff writer Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
For the record, Moorlach was NOT a supervisor when this retroactive pension increase was approved in 2001. He was county treasurer, and he urged the Board of Supervisors NOT to approve it. He did not become a supervisor until 2006.
You’ll have to excuse Lawman, he’s now showing the attitude of someone getting everything paid for in the “Nanny State”. Like the people on welfare, when changes were made in the system. (They screamed at anyone taking away what they felt they were entitled to). Instead of being gracious for what they are given, they attack anyone trying to make adjustments so others may not go without.
(Yes, Lawman, you are GIVEN a pension, mostly paid for by taxpayers). Most of us would be greatful to get that kind of pension at 50.
lawman & idiot pig are not who they say they are. I know, big news flash.
Lawman is actually an overweight rent a cop shakin’ knobs for a skosh over minimum wage.
idiot pig is a unemployed mortgage broker.
Put them together and you have a 5:00 news story waitin’ to happen. We can only hope.
Hahaha…..yeah, that’s it you bungling fool. My god, this is too easy.
>>># Johnb Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
You’ll have to excuse Lawman, he’s now showing the attitude of someone getting everything paid for in the “Nanny State”. Like the people on welfare, when changes were made in the system. (They screamed at anyone taking away what they felt they were entitled to). Instead of being gracious for what they are given, they attack anyone trying to make adjustments so others may not go without.
(Yes, Lawman, you are GIVEN a pension, mostly paid for by taxpayers). Most of us would be greatful to get that kind of pension at 50.<<<
\
the floyd:
blah blah blah…I am an employed institutional money manager you idiot…I am but one of many private sector people who work HARD to ensure that public employees actually have a pension when they retire.
go comment on a a topic you actually know something about.
Teri, Let me clarify my earlier statement.
As Treasurer, John Moorlach advocated to the sitting supervisors in 2001 and 2004 that they approve the adjustments to the pension benefits for Public Safety and County workers. I challenge anyone to find one press statement or quote from Mr. Moorlach opposing the the 3 at 50 benefit at the time it was approved.
Moorlach advocated that the increase for public safety workers be approved because he was concerned that the County would not be able to hire quality workers if the benefits were not offered.
And JonnyVegas, I am neither a liar or dirtbag.
Chris,
Please ignore JonnyVegas as most of us do. He is is ignorant and vulgar.
Chris Prevatt
Regardless of the prior position of Moorlach in 2001 and 2004, Mr. Moorlach’s vocalization of his concerns is appropriate.
Is there something in his comment that you actually find false?
So far, I find his comments to be on target.
There is a problem with the government lead pension programs. If the funds were not well managed, you have a huge issue.
A professional money manager is posting on this thread and iterating this for the blog.
We should heed the comments from the banking people and the county people. The stability of these funds should be examined. This includes Cal Optima
Kat Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Chris,
Please ignore JonnyVegas as most of us do. He is is ignorant and vulgar.
===== ====
That is JoHnnyVegas to you Kat!
Chris Prevatt Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Teri, Let me clarify my earlier statement.
As Treasurer, John Moorlach advocated to the sitting supervisors in 2001 and 2004 that they approve the adjustments to the pension benefits for Public Safety and County workers. I challenge anyone to find one press statement or quote from Mr. Moorlach opposing the the 3 at 50 benefit at the time it was approved.
Moorlach advocated that the increase for public safety workers be approved because he was concerned that the County would not be able to hire quality workers if the benefits were not offered.
And JonnyVegas, I am neither a liar or dirtbag.
==== =========
OK, I take back the lying dirtbag statement.
But JM did NOT advocate giving a retroactive pension, that is a falsehood.
Call his office on Monday morning and see for yourself if you have the guts. (714) 834-3220.
Then call that idiot Todd Spitzer who WAS responsible for that scam and tell him off. (916) 319-2071.
Yup. A real nut.
In 2001 Moorlach was trying to be responsible and address two issues: one,overtime caused by understaffing and costing millions on the annual budget; two; shifting then current expenses(old, high salary/benefit employees) off the annual budget onto the retirement system. Historically the county always chose to defer costs to the future whenever possible, offering pension benefits and other items they would’nt have to pay until ….tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow…., you know, the ANNIE Theory of money management, instead of pay raises and medical benefits they would have to pay today. Well, tomorrow is coming soon and John Moorlach is going to have to deal with it. That said, his so-called UNIQUE constitutionall theory has been in court 4 times and rejected. The law firm he found after Maneiro’s extensive phone search is from out of state, unlike the four California firms and the County Counsel, all of whom rejected it. But, now its in court again and we’ll all just have to leave it in the hands of lawyers. Where’s my airsick bag?
Folks, folks, I understand emotions are running high here, but please keep your disagreements civil or we’re going to have to start nixing some of the comments.
Now that I have read all of this vitrol, I need to chime in with a couple of points that everyone has missed. First as law enforcment we do NOT get Social Security benefits, and our Medicare will be severly curtailed. Second when the 3@50 was implemented, we deferred a raise and paid into the program to make it work. Third, the part that Moorcrock wants to stop has nothing to do with recent or future hirees, only the people that are already retired. But the bottom line in this whole arguement is that WHAT WAS BARGAINED FOR IN GOOD FAITH, SHOULD BE HONORED IN GOOD FAITH. Where was Treasurer Moorcrock when this was being negotiated for. He was on the OCERS Board. Oh yeah, now I remember, it was before he got his nose our of joint when AOCDS didn’t back him.
It went WAAAAAYYYY beyond civil a long time ago, sweetie.
You may want to tell some of these obvious cop-haters in here that I’m retired off the job now and I can say whatever I want. These jerkoffs all yak about police professionalism until they actually have to PAY for it. Then they all get a stricken look on their face and make a mad dash to the crapper.
The girly men Wall Street bean counters in here are beyond hilarious with their drivel.
Lawman, “I can say whatever I want” ? How old are you? You are 3 or a senior now going back to being 3. Your posts should be removed, because either way, you’re not over 13…mentally!!!
Johnb Says:
September 8th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Lawman, “I can say whatever I want” ?
How old are you?
===== ===========
LawDork has a chronological age of 55, but the mental age of a 12 year old.
Pretty soon he is going to resort to the “I’m rubber, you’re glue” argument.
Teri Sforza, Register staff writer Says:
September 8th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Folks, folks, I understand emotions are running high here, but please keep your disagreements civil or we’re going to have to start nixing some of the comments.
======
Please start with LawDork.
Thank you.
JV
Lawman,
I used to work with cops and they were a bit on the defensive. Lighten up. No one hates cops, but you guys aren’t very good when we need a hug or a shoulder to cry on. You can be way too rough around the edges for your own good. And, we aren’t all “pussies” as you say.
Without a good retirement plan, I don’t see most people staying in law enforcement. I don’t mean those on desk patrol. I mean the guys that go out and deal with the crap they do. Forget getting shot at a routine traffic stop. The suicide and divorce rates is high enough. You see things and deal with things that you don’t take home.
I do think that some in law enforcement are overpaid. I just won’t throw cops in with other civil service employees, like the DMV.
I see your point Bucky. I agree with certain parts of it. At least you don’t come off like a jerk citing statistics for which there is no reliable source.
johnny vegas you dont know what your talking about so quit showing us all how pathetically stupid you really are!
why dont you consentrate on the illegal aliens that pilfer millions of taxpayers money and have you heard the news lately ahhhh! the state still doesnt have a budget or how bout read comments geezer had made about what taxpayers actually pay for retirements.
So when they lose that amount of money, how is it made up?
Without a good retirement plan….
Wow, Bucky we can finally agree that good retirement plans and benefits help motivate employees.
The solution is to Capitalize Gain and Social all Loses to remove any form of risk in investments and have a continual party.
The Government just bailed out Freddie and Fannie maybe they will bail out my retirement savings next week.
kevinshut Says:
September 8th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
johnny vegas you dont know what your talking about so quit showing us all how pathetically stupid you really are!
why dont you consentrate on the illegal aliens that pilfer millions of taxpayers money and have you heard the news lately ahhhh! the state still doesnt have a budget or how bout read comments geezer had made about what taxpayers actually pay for retirements.
== =======
Don’t tell me, you’re a welfare queen cop or FF??????
Alan Says:
September 8th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
The Government just bailed out Freddie and Fannie maybe they will bail out my retirement savings next week.
=== ====
Unless you’re Big Business or Super Rich, you won’t get bailed out.
For the little guy is it call “personal responsibility”.
For Big Business it is called private profits, socialized risks.
Shut up. You’re stupid. You’re also on parole. What I ought to do is post your real name so everyone here will know exactly why Little JonnyKat was in prison. You should be ashamed to even appear in public.
I enjoy reading the blogs and individuals different points of view. However, I am dismayed at some bloggers by their vitriolic hate, lpoor grammar and lack of writing skills. Before you write, think!
Gentlemen,
Stop throwing sand in the sandbox.
For the little guy is it call “personal responsibility”.
It is personal responsibility for everyone.
The bottom line is our economy is at a time where GDP growth is even slower then the Great Depression. Banks are closing and people are losing their savings.
This is an adjustment period in the economy. The question is how long will it last and in most data it currently appears that we are on the tail end and investors, myself included, are timing the market.
If I lose I lose and I am out my investments if I time it wrong. If I time it right then I increase my asset holdings. I do not expect the government to grant me any form of protection other then in the case of fraud.
It sucks when “the county will have to pay to fully fund pensions for retirees” as that is not what investments are for and the burden should not be placed on the taxpayers.
The question is how can we all stimulate economy growth in America? And how do we get the average person to begin saving again?
One hand says for us to spend to help the economy and the other tell us to invest. It is a balancing act and most of us are living paycheck to paycheck with little or no investment savings.
In summary, if you cannot afford it then do not buy it. It is a sad fact that a lot of Americans do not like to hear and they would rather pull out their credit card and charge it to their kids and in the case of the County they want to give in to the union demands for benefits and pass the bill to the taxpayer.
I have changed my name as calling “Lawman” idiot pig was is poor taste. Moving along…the bottom line as I and many of my coleauges see it is that promises are made to without
Alan:
The question is how can we all stimulate economy growth in America? And how do we get the average person to begin saving again?
My Answer:
1. Stop having government write checks when they do not have the money.
2. Quit taxing businesses and the citizens when they don’t have the money to pay anyway.
3. Restructure the federal reserve bank and the central banking structure.
4. Deregulate manufacturing in California.
5. Deregulate the energy production.
6. DRILL for oil off shore
7. DRILL for oil on shore
8. Build the refining capabilities
9. Mine for resources in California’s deserts
10. Grant property tax reduction to homeowners who install home renewable energy production/generation
11. Grant property tax, sales tax, and income tax reduction for purchase of CNG and Hybrid cars/trucks/etc.
And now the radical ideas:
A. Create method to have US corporations work with the US gov’t to gain control over commodity production in Mongolia, Manchuria, Siberia, ex-Soviet states like Georgia and the southern states.
B. Put Americans back to work in manufacturing and business by slashing Dept of Industrial Relations actions
C. Put the Workers Comp claims courts out of business by rewriting the workers comp rules to ban frivolous claims.
D. Slash the tort liability system by tightening on the statute of limitations for such cases
E. Retrain the substantial prisoner population to perform manual labor manufacturing jobs.
F. Scrap social security and end the social security penalties on the young people of this country.
I can agree with a hell of a lot of the above.
A current year loss of 3% is actually pretty good in this current economic climate. Waht the Emperor Chicken Little Moorlach conveniently forgets to mention if the double diget returns of the last several years that actually exceeded projections of 7.5% annually.
Moorlach is making up a crisis that does not exist. The only way there would be a problem of “unfunded” actuarial liabilities would be if the County were to close up shop. That isn’t going to happen.
Losses are part of any investment plan. Orange County has one of the most conservative low risk investment strategies of any retirement system. Investment return performance runs in cycles. Some years are good, some years are bad. Long-term performance cannot be gaged on an annual basis. Even Chicken Little knows that. He just won’t say so.
Alan Says:
September 8th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
For the little guy is it call “personal responsibility”.
It is personal responsibility for everyone.
=========================
Really??
I guess you and Bushie forgot to tell that to the millionaire and billionaire investment Bankers at Bear Stern’s Cos., where they were leveraging the market at 30-1, and when the best went good they kept all the profits and when they went bad thr TAXPAYERS picked up a 30 billion dollar loss.
Is that your idea of “…personal responsibility for everyone.” Alan?????
Lawman Says:
September 8th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Shut up. You’re stupid. You’re also on parole. What I ought to do is post your real name so everyone here will know exactly why Little JonnyKat was in prison. You should be ashamed to even appear in public.
== =======
LawDork, please stop hanging around the K-6 schools to get your jollies-OK.
That is what I said we are all about capitalizing the gain and socializing the lose and personal responsibility.
K-6 schools to get your jollies
And why are we using emotional and personal attacks on people?
Well, the problem is JonnyKat is here. People love to dump on him. He used to post on the Long Beach Press Telegram website as Welfare Queen FF, or something similar to that. He took great joy in citing made up statistics that he said showed that officers are uneducated, without degrees, and beat their wives. He eventually was banned off the site. But he never said a word about his criminal history and why he went to state prison.
Alan Says:
September 9th, 2008 at 9:02 am
That is what I said we are all about capitalizing the gain and socializing the lose and personal responsibility.
K-6 schools to get your jollies
And why are we using emotional and personal attacks on people?
=== ========
Why not??
LawDork, I ran your child molesting butt off of the Long Beach Press Telegram website and Orange Punch, and I wll do it here too.
So put that in your GED crack pipe and smoke it.
BTW, how do you post from Chino????
And why are we using emotional and personal attacks on people?
Why not??
Because if you wanted to engage in a mature and educated conversation that provides value to the issue then you would stick with the facts in presenting your side of the argument.
Remember that this is an open forum designed to build on the knowledge and facts that other can add to the topic which is, retirement fund loses $300 million.
This is likely going to cost the tax payer and the question is how do we prevent this from happening in the future. Again can we please avoid the personal and emotional attacks and help us in finding a solution to the problem either through raising taxes, issuing bonds, incurring the fact of economic lose during our recession and so forth.
I am not sure of the issues you have against some of the respondersl however, I would like work on fixing problems instead of creating more…
Alan Says:
September 9th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
And why are we using emotional and personal attacks on people?
Why not??
Because if you wanted to engage in a mature and educated conversation that provides value to the issue then you would stick with the facts in presenting your side of the argument.
=== =========
Good for you Alan, I am not here to please you are your boyfriend LawDork.
Don’t like my comments, don’t read them.
BTW Alan, you want to fix the $300 million dollar…opps, I mean 2.7 BILLION DOLLAR problem, then stop paying GED educated moron cops and FF’s, like LawDork, $200K per year-Boom, problem solved.
That’s the problem, nothing more. You can’t pay the GED and HS educated $200K per year in compensation and expect to stay solvent.
200 grand a year?? What a clueless A-hole you are. Chino?? Hell, I don’t know. I guess that’s where the server is when I jump around on the wireless. I have never heard of Orange Punch. I still post on the Long Beach Press Telegram. You were run off for saying the same filthy things about policemen that you say here. You’re a scumbag. You also know nothing about law enforcement pensions. Your whole trip is calling names and being stupid.
Hahaha…LawDork was let out of his cell in Chino to post more nonsense with another GED meltdown..
Good for you Alan, I am not here to please you are your boyfriend LawDork.
Again stating incorrect information. Do you have anything of value to add to the discussion?
Alan, forget it. This blog has become a waste of typing. I’m not going to invest my thoughts anymore until the company here learns how to debate provocatively and intellectually. I suggest you do the same.
Chad and Alan… do not allow internet trolls to scare you off.
Just ignore them.
Don’t let them ruin good public discussion.
This is a great service that OC register is providing so that the truth can get out.
Lawman: you are a very good reason to dislike cops. Your “I got mine and to h**l with the rest of you” mentality is childish, unprofessional, moronic, and just dumb. Grow up!
# Grow Up Says:
September 9th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Lawman: you are a very good reason to dislike cops. Your “I got mine and to h**l with the rest of you” mentality is childish, unprofessional, moronic, and just dumb. Grow up!
Blow yourself.
Alan Says:
September 9th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Again stating incorrect information. Do you have anything of value to add to the discussion?
=== ===============
Can you give ou some cheese with that Whine Alan????
OH, BTW “Alan”, Lehman Bros. is about to go BK, let’s see how much “personal responsibility” they are held to.
I have $100 bucks that says they have their losses covered by the TAXPAYERS, just like the other millionaires at Bear Sterns Cos. and Fannie/Freddie.
They are ripping off the taxpayers just like the GED edcuated cops (Exhibit A-LawDork) and FF’s are all across this state. We don’t see you standing up to that nonsense now do we.
Actually, as I’ve always maintained, most officers these days have 4 year degrees. I think you’re just jealous. I’ve got a bachelors in English which, as I’ve said, was of great value to me when I’d write reports that were enormously helpful in sending punks like you to state prison.
I’ve never ripped anybody off. More feces vomiting forth from your “purty” mouth.
Lawman Says:
September 10th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Actually, as I’ve always maintained, most officers these days have 4 year degrees.
========
Yeah, right welfare queen.
If by “most” you mean 15% you’re right.
But I guess with a GED you never were good at math or statistics.
Now back to your cell at Chino.
Does Johnny Vegas have an office next door to Johnny Moorlach?
JonnyKat’s office is underneath Moorlach’s desk.
Sometimes I wonder where the idiot comes up with his insane statistics, then I realize he makes everything up. He can’t talk right now because his mouth is full.
LawDork, get back in your Chino cell, and dont drop the soap in the shower.
BS Says:
September 10th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Does Johnny Vegas have an office next door to Johnny Moorlach?
== ====
Don’t tell me, your OCSO,or a FF?????
Hey A-hole, you’re the one who’s been in prison and is still on parole. I lived a good life and I’m retired law enforcement. Your life is crap. Mine’s great.
But you do have a purty mouth.
Hey LawDork, did they let you out of your Chino cell AGAIN TODAY??
Sorry punk. You’re talking about yourself again. What a waste of a human life you must feel like. Convicted child molester, on parole, and always looking over your shoulder for people wanting you dead.
You thought I didn’t know who you are, did you……………
So jealous I have a great pension and you have change for coffee.
No Johnny I’m not a OCSO or FF, but I do pay into OCERS and will enjoy my retirement from a 7.7 BILLION dollar fund………thanks for asking though.
LawDork, get back in your cell at Chino you dirtbag GED moron!
Maybe I’ll let you out for rec time and a shower tomorrow. I know how you like dropping the soap in the shower.
The dirt bag is you. Any guy who paroles out of prison and is sent back to his scummy parents’ home in Beaumont is a dirt bag by definition. Should I post your address, Mr. Convicted Child Molester??
Beaumont?? Are you kiddin’ me? Gee, how long is the clothesline that goes from the antenna of your ‘65 Nova to the post of your front porch?
And that crescent moon cutout in the door of your outhouse is the coolest.
I find myself compelled to ask the John Moorlach supporters a series of questions, since they don’t think I earned or deserve my pension that was previously promised to me.
In their careers, how many times have they found themselves surrounded by thousands of hardened criminals who would slit their throats in a heart beat?
How many times did they find themselves in a life threatening high speed pursuit with involving a parolee in a stolen car that doesn’t want to prison and will do anything necessary to avoid it?
How many times have they chased an armed gang member through the dark streets of their neighborhoods, not knowing if he’s around the next corner ready to shot them?
How many drug induced maniac’s have they had to wrestle to the ground, handcuff and transport to jail?
How many funerals of their murdered co-workers have they attended?
How many of their mothers, fathers, children, wives, family members, friends birthdays have they missed due to their careers?…..How many Christmas’ did their children have to open presents without mommy or daddy due their career?…..How many Thanksgivings did they spend in the drive thru of a fast food chain due to their careers?…….How many other Holidays and special moments in life have they missed due to their careers and can never be replaced?
My answer is…….I’ve missed all of the above, many years over…….and placed my life in harms way, so that you could be at home enjoying those moments with your family. I patrolled your neighborhood so nobody stole your new car you worked hard for, I patrolled your neighborhood so while you were out of town on business, your wife and children were safe.
I think I have gone above and beyond that of a “normal job”, so that I could retire with a better than average retirement. And I too am an OC tax payer…….how ironic…….I’m paying my own wages/retirement. As someone else mentioned, the average life expectancy of a cop after retirement is less than 7 years, and the spouse of a dead cop does not get his/her total retirement, a large portion of it goes back to the county fund……..and you think we’re over paid and have to good of a retirement……….if that’s how you feel…….why don’t you join up?
PS: Why aren’t the OC Fireman included in this issue?….They have the same retirement plan.
I think that the incentive for hiring is overstated. Its not about recruiting, but getting them to stay. Talk money all day and night, but people leave because of low morale. Sure, you think that you’re going to save the world coming in, but the bad guys are always out there, and sometimes in your department.
A lot of the overtime from the Sheriff’s department is from those running the jails. Want less overtime? Keep more deputies.
I actually did start testing in another department but didn’t like the attitudes and the reputation of the department in that city. I pulled out when it took me three hours to flag down a cop when I found my own stolen car by the side of the road. Oh, a squad car drove by every fifteen minutes, but the occupants were so into talking to each other that they couldn’t see anything that would cause them to get out of the car. The division did a good job at speed traps when they needed to look like they were doing their jobs. They did a good job staking out some of these fast food joints expecting freebies, whether or not it was Thanksgiving.
I also didn’t care for the officer involved shootings where no one got hit. Where I come from, cops hit their targets. But we shot our own bad guys and sometimes our neighbors bad guys if they were out of town. We didn’t just spray and pray the neighborhood.
I found a better rapport with other departments, but was a little old by then. Citizens don’t have to sign up or recuse themselves. I also don’t think that every person who puts on a uniform goes through all the things you mention. Unfortunately, citizens encounter bad apples and law enforcement works with poor leadership. Too bad that they’re wearing the uniforms of some really outstanding heroes.
Alan,
People can read what I wrote for themselves, in spite of your efforts to twist the my words. Its dishonest and arrogant, but you like to associate yourself with the honor of others when you show none. I can respect a difference of opinions, but I don’t respect that.
You tend to do that a lot, when you aren’t using the rank-and-file as poster boys, and invoking the imagery of their efforts, for defending the board room set. Maybe defending them makes you feel like you are one of them. God bless the useful idiots.
We are talking about a raise for the union boss.
BTW, nice use of bold. Have you tried this, this, this, this, or this?
I guess bold is the only one that worked? Darn.
I haven’t avoided anything. Actually, you inferred some point that I didn’t make for some support for whatever it is you are trying to prove on all these boards.
You haven’t asked any questions. You seem to put winning the argument above integrity.
Click on the link silly there are two (2) questions that you still have not answered, again.
Alan,
Do you have any idea which companies are sitting on our county investment pools?
Are they sitting in Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac or Lehman?
It looks like Merrill Lynch and Lehman are failing. So, our tax payer money is on the ropes with them.
Which companies hold our gov’t bonds?
These funds and which companies get them are the distribution of power and money in our area.
The hospital risk pools are tied to these banks.
But, for some reason, the distribution of those funds are not open to disclosure by gov’t.
It’s not THEIR money. It’s OUR money.
Alan,
You have yet to answer my questions and I reciprocated.
I saw your response weeks ago to my response to another response to someone else’s response on the 3 at 50 issue. Your’s was trying to inculcate some agreement to one of your favorite causes; executive compensation.
The 3 at 50 is setup so personnel do move up within the system, and hold a high paying position for the last twelve consecutive months to retire on good pay. It is not incentive to hire people, but a disincentive to do nothing while in. Some organizations calculate the highest three years of wages (according to some on the board). Rules like this are setup so personnel do not game the system and sit around for 30 years and get that one big promotion, then quit.
Executive compensation is a different animal altogether. Their deferred payment is negotiated ahead of time, and they get it whether or not they do a good job. In most cases, it is regarded as severance pay. Either way, this doesn’t support your position on anything nor paint me as a hypocrite, which is what you’re trying to do here.
While we are off topic and answering each other’s questions, what is the ‘agenda’ you speak of? Who are we out to get today?
Based on your long awaited reply it is obvious that you have an agenda and out to get executives with compensation as it is a disincentive to do nothing.
Thanks for finally answering.
Sorry that was not me asking.
However,
There is NO problem recruiting GED educated employees
I agree; however, if they are competing against someone with higher education they will likely not get the job.
Would you rather have someone with an advance degree or someone who has a GED and nothing more running your multi-million dollar organization?
If Moorlack would have waited to sound the alarm, Citron was in the process of moving into a safe investment, that would have given the county an extra $800 Millon in the bank and there would have been no bankruptcy. Thanks to Moorlach OC went belly up. Now he is trying to screw the county tax payers again. Moorlach has a higher office in mind and on the backs of taxpayers of Orange County to get there. All in the name of look what, I’m doing for you the tax payers. When he talks about pension costs, he makes it seem as if the county employees have a great pension. A high percentage of the county employees are paying for their own retirement 100%, not the tax payers of OC, Moorlack is bad news for OC. Wake up OC……..