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‘Nightmare story:’ retirement fund loses $300 million
September 6th, 2008, 7:00 am · 175 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
Each week, The Watchdog asks this question of one elected official:
If you could cut one thing from the budget, what would it be and why?
OUR DISCLAIMER: The Watchdog does not agree or disagree with the opinions expressed by said elected officials; we simply serve as the conduit between you, the people, and the folks you have elected to represent you. As the saying goes, the people get the government they deserve!
Background on Chair of the Orange County Board of Supervisors, John Moorlach:
- Was derided as “Chicken Little” while running for county treasurer in 1994 against Bob Citron, for predicting doom in the county investment pool.
- Has sported license plates saying DULLCPA and - after his predictions on the investment pool came true and $1.64 billion was lost - SKYFELL.
- Represents the second district (including Costa Mesa, Cypress, Fountain Valley,
Garden Grove, Huntington Beach, La Palma, Los Alamitos, Newport Beach, Seal Beach and
Stanton). - Graduated from CSU Long Beach, 1977; Certified Public Accountant, 1978; completed studies for Certified Financial Planner, 1987.
- Was Vice President of Balser, Horowitz, Frank & Wakeling, an Accountancy Corporation; administrative partner of its Costa Mesa office.
- Appointed county treasurer in 1995, after Citron was forced out; reelected twice.
- Won seat on Board of Supervisors in 2006.
- Has had extra training in public finance and employee pensions.
- Active in Old Courthouse Museum society; Orange County Historical Society; Christian Business Men’s Committee; Noble Viking Charities of Orange County; Defend the Bay; Orange County Freedom Committee.
- Married, three children.
WATCHDOG: John Moorlach, if you could cut one thing from the budget, what would it be and why?
MOORLACH: Let me tell you a nightmare story that hasn’t hit the papers yet. Our retirement system, in the month of June, had a net decrease in asset value of $293 million. We contribute $306 million a year to the plan - so whatever 
we’re contributing has already been lost.
So when they lose that amount of money, how is it made up? They’re at a negative for the year to date, minus 3 percent earnings. They have to be positive 8 percent to make everything work. So we’re 11 percent behind. That adds to what the county will have to pay to fully fund pensions for retirees.
In 2001, the Board of Supervisors awarded retroactive pension increases to thousands of employees. It allowed them to retire as early as age 50, with pensions that paid 90 percent of their final salaries for the rest of their lives. That decision could cost the county between $100 million and $200 million.
Before the 2001 vote, our retirement system was fully-funded. A recent estimate found that it’s now underfunded by $2.7 billion. That money would have to come out of taxpayers’ pockets.
We’ve filed a lawsuit seeking to reverse the retroactive portion of the 2001 decision. But, to make sure that something like this doesn’t happen again, we’ve put an initiative on the November ballot that will require the voters to approve pension plan enhancements. We’re saying, bring it to the voters. Anything that creates immediate cost, bring it to the voters. They’re the ones on the hook. They’re going to have to watch services be cut to pay for these benefits. They’re going to look and say, ’Wait, we don’t get this kind of retirement package, we don’t get to retire at 55 with nearly full pay. What’s wrong with this picture?’ Let the unions make their case to the people, instead of just three county supervisors. Let the people examine and approve future increases to employee pensions.
San Francisco County has been doing this for years. The city of San Diego recently approved a similar charter amendment. And San Francisco’s retirement system is 107 percent funded. Ours is 73 percent funded. That makes a dramatic difference in how much they’re paying every year.
I’m saying, hey, this is a tool that is working in another county, why don’t we take the union pressure off of three electeds, the majority of the Board of Supervisors, and have them convince you that they should have an increase? Ballot measures to increase retirement benefits in San Francisco have passed. Most have passed. We’re not saying “Don’t do it,” we’re just saying “Make your case to the 3 million people who’ll be paying for it.”
It doesn’t fix what’s happened in the past, but over the next 10, 20, 30 years, it can prevent more problems. It’s a vehicle that says, ‘Look. Elected officials are under too much pressure from employee unions to give benefits. Benefits that have to be paid by taxpayers, but are now unsustainable.’
I think that’s a word that every municipality has to be talking about - sustainability. How can we continue granting these kinds of benefits and then be able to afford them?
September 6th, 2008 at 8:13 am
Aw, shut the hell up, Fat Boy. Only things you know about have ketchup and mustard on ‘em.
Admit you’re a cop-hater and a bigot. You’ll sleep better.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:34 am
They should put this up to a vote of the people. Tax payers are the ones paying the bill if the market continue to drop. If the pension plan starts going under, tax payers will have to make up any difference the plan cannot pay out.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Bob Citron did not cause the OC bankruptcy. John and the County Board caused it.
Who is to blame now? Same people?
September 6th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Hey Lawman:
Wow you are ignorant. You are probably some high school educated pig that is just bitter you cannot get a better job. Leave the finance talk to those of us who know what we are talking about.
Stop being bitter you are middle class, maybe you should have studied harder.
You may patrol OC but we all know you can only afford to leave in Riverslime. Enjoy your ride home on the 91 you idiot.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:29 am
I am SICK of the public employees unions and their budget busting retirement packages. We the taxpayers are getting the short end of the stick and the bills to boot. Reduce these extravagant retirement payouts to be more in line with the private sector! We don’t get 90% of our final salary NOR have the ability to retire at 50!
September 6th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Did you take your 100K of taxpayer money for your new office furniture to the voters? Not to mention your increase in salary and benefits? If the county is losing money in its investment plan, that is YOUR fault, not a bunch of retired cops. Look at the bright side John, these retired cops are dying before the age of 65, most are kicking off sooner. Seeing how their widows and children get only 60 percent of their retirement benefits, thats a big savings for the county. Wanna brighten your day John? Take a look at the “in sympathy” page of the last Retirees news letter. A whole page of retired employees kicked the bucket last month. I wonder how many of them because you doubled their insurance premiums and the couldn’t afford to keep it.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:52 am
sofedup - I’m not in law enforcement but thanks for what you wrote! He really needs to go!
September 6th, 2008 at 11:01 am
To all the readers who are of the opinion Moorlach has TO GO - Agreed.
And I hope the doorknob hits him hard on the way out the door.
What an incompetent bag of hot air.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:24 am
>>>I am SICK of the public employees unions and their budget busting retirement packages. We the taxpayers are getting the short end of the stick and the bills to boot. Reduce these extravagant retirement payouts to be more in line with the private sector! We don’t get 90% of our final salary NOR have the ability to retire at 50!<<<
Listen up stupid. We didn’t work in the private sector. Therefore, we don’t care what the private sector does. The folks in the private sector took those jobs to make the big bucks and show off their material crap. The guys in the civil service sector don’t make nearly as much in salary, but have better benefits. That’s why I went in 31 years ago. Now that I have my pension, you’re going to tell me I make too much money?? Hell, you’re just jealous and bitter. Don’t get on us because we had the foresight as young men to look 30 years down the road. Apparently, you did not.
You don’t get 90%, 80%, 75%, or 50% of your final salary, and you don’t get to retire at 50 after 30 years of service with a 90% salary because that’s not the kind of job you took.
More in line with the private sector your ass buddy. Not in your lifetime.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:34 am
>>>>>Listen up stupid. We didn’t work in the private sector. Therefore, we don’t care what the private sector does. The folks in the private sector took those jobs to make the big bucks and show off their material crap. The guys in the civil service sector don’t make nearly as much in salary, but have better benefits. That’s why I went in 31 years ago. Now that I have my pension, you’re going to tell me I make too much money?? Hell, you’re just jealous and bitter. Don’t get on us because we had the foresight as young men to look 30 years down the road. Apparently, you did not.
Ok, go ahead and take the “private sector” version of your job…go work security at the mall and you’ll see how much the free market values your job. You’re paid more than well enough for what you do. If you want a nanny, try the classifieds, not the tax payers.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:35 am
“Take the pressure of the pressure of the three electeds…” Are you kidding me? That’s why we put them there in the first place! The Board of Supervisors needs to shut up, grow some nuts, and make the tough decisions we pay them to make. Stop dodging responsibility by bringing every little issue to the votes. Three county supervisors didn’t have a problem trying to shove a colossal airport that wasn’t needed down our throats! Oh, I guess putting the selfish interests of their rich friends in Newport ahead of the public interest wasn’t hard at all. So what if the Board of Supervisors is feeling the heat from unions? Get some moral courage and do the right thing for our county whatever that is in this case!
September 6th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Let the voters make the decision? Perhaps we should let the voters make the decision on all the crazy stuff Moorlach spends county money on. In fact why don’t we just get rid on his job since he doesn’t want to do the job he was elected to do. County employees (non-sworn) put significantly more money toward their pension plan than people put towards Social Security. Funny how he says the county will have to make up the difference during the down years and fails to mention how the county doesn’t contribute a dime during the up years. If they did perhaps we WOULD be fully funded
September 6th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Sustainability is a concern. However, lets not make it sound like its the retiree’s fault. “Take aways” are bad any way you cut it. PERS is the largest (wealthiest) retirement system in the country even through its ups and downs. Thats investing; ups and downs. Figure it out Moorlach and take some accountability. Private sector, blame your CEO’s for your misfortune.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:51 am
“Take the pressure of the pressure of the three electeds…” Are you kidding me? That’s why we put them there in the first place! The Board of Supervisors needs to shut up, grow a pair, and make the tough decisions we pay them to make. Stop dodging responsibility by bringing every little issue to the votes. Three county supervisors didn’t have a problem trying to shove a colossal airport that wasn’t needed down our throats! Oh, I guess putting the selfish interests of their rich friends in Newport ahead of the public interest wasn’t hard at all. So what if the Board of Supervisors is feeling the heat from unions? Get some moral courage and do the right thing for our county whatever that is in this case!
September 6th, 2008 at 11:57 am
give it 10 years when alot of us private sector people move out of the OC and see how long before the only people living here are the ultra rich or very poor. It is a crime what they do but because we keep re-electing these clowns we deserve what we get. 10 years folks and the chickens will come home to roost. Yeah nevada.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Lawman: what a self-serving obnoxious “public servant” you are. Who do you suppose pays your big benefits? All those private sector folks you deride! Yeah, you got yours but why do you have to be such a j**k about it? I get the same thing but I will never loose sight of where it comes from, taxpaying people you consider fools. I consider them my ultimate boss.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
That’s why its called an investment fund; market goes up, market goes down, market goes up, market goes down. That’s why the fund keeps a surplus, for the down times, and averages 10.5% earnings over time. There have been worse economic down-turns in the last thirty years, and the fund weathered them as well. But then, Mr. Moorlach knows this, doesn’t he? After all, he’s a CPA. As for that investment pool debacle in 1995? The debacle was he scared the Supervisors into selling at less than 10 cents on the dollar, forcing bankruptcy. Turns out 2 years later the investments would have made money, and the bankruptcy was just a panic induced by……oh, yeah, Moorlach. Now he is declaring another crisis and throwing more money away to friendly lawyers.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Mr. Moorlach conveniently leaves out he was County Treasurer AND a member of the OCERS board of directors at the time and was a full partner to the negotiations, research, actuarials and the eventual agreement itself, which, by the way, was initiated by the Board of Supervisors. Moorlach was their representative on the OCERS, it was his job to watchdog the thing and he failed. Now he excuses this by faulting greedy unions and “erronious assumptions about retirement patterns”. Who made those assumptions?….Oh, yeah, Moorlach! Hey, John, you know the old saying about assumptions ? They make an ASS of U and Me!!! Did he mention that after the pension agreement for the Sheriff and Firefighters he and the Board voted themselves a 2.75@50 package ? I guess that .25% makes all the difference in the world to that self-serving horn-blowing CPA.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Lawman, who are your employers? Who pays your salaries and pensions?
You said “We didn’t work in the private sector”, but you do work FOR the private sector. Since the tax payers are responsible for your benefits, we should be the ones voting on them, it’s coming out of OUR pockets.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Oldski, I want Moorlach and the board of supervisors to take the same cuts. Cut ALL government pension plans, we cannot afford paying anyone 75-90% of their pay in retirement.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Lawman, I am not bitter, I am just tired of folks who expect taxpayers to fund an all-expenses-paid ride because of a claim of moral superiority.
I went down the “not in the private sector” career path a long time back, taking a track that had a much higher chance of not making it to retirement than any law-enforcement field.
One of the tacit truths then was that government service meant putting the public good as your first priority. I’m not sure when that changed, but it seems very apparent that union leadership and county/city management don’t give as much thought to the needs of the public as they do to offering “competitive” compensation.
As a thought, how do you feel your pay and pension options compare to those of infantry soldiers who are promised a 50-75 percent pension *IF* they live through 20 to 30 years of military service, serving in some decidedly unpleasant places, enduring repeated separations from home and loved ones? How would you compare your pension (and the likelihood of you collecting it) to theirs?
September 6th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Johnb
do you realize that these men and women that are providing you security every day and night 24/7 do not get to collect SS. They do not pay into it, therefore they don’t get it. They took the job because a pension would be provided, now Moorlach thinks it will make him look good to strip them of what was promised. Don’t worry, when he is done going after the cops and firefighters, then he will come after the teachers next. Just the people that took the thankless jobs, so they could make a difference in this world. I guess you are right, why shoudl we show them any respect at all. Screw them!!!!! But next time your house gets broken into, there is a major fire or your kid can’t pass a test in school, remember that you are the type of person that is making the good quality people that take these jobs move away to other cities/counties that do appreciate them, They will be the towns you want to live in, but not pay for, Remember you get what you pay for. And I for one, want quality in my law enforcement, fire fighting and teachers.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
John Moorlach is truly one disgusting public official. His hypocrisy is beyond belief let alone his self-righteousness. I’m not taking sides on this issue. However, I am just sick and tired of this big mouth, political hack acting as if he was brought to this planet by the Lord Himself.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Then vote for the ballot measure in November, I would. Hey, I am VERY grateful every minute for my excellent retirement benefits, and appreciate what taxpayers contributed to make it possible. I hope I gave them 33yrs of excellent service (I enjoyed nearly every minute). I agree, the public, including me, needs better protection from incompetent public servants like the current Board. I’m in favor of changing the rules for the future approval of these plans, of including public approval, but my deal was made, bought and paid for, under the rules of the day. That was always my motto,” Tell me the rules and we’ll all play by them”.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Don’t forget the “hero” fireman get to retire at 50 too. But I guess that’s ok…
September 6th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
lawman, just a suggestion but maybe if you were not so rude, people might take you more seriously.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
johnb, I agree, all public employees should take the same cuts.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Unfortunately, the Orange County Retirement System is an exception. Most public employee retirement systems in the state are very well funded and managed. For example, 75% of every pension dollar paid out by CalPERS comes from investment income. More than half of the rest comes from EMPLOYEE contributions and less than 12 cents of every dollar paid out comes from the taxpayers.
It’s true that in the last decade private sector pensions have taken a big hit. Most of this can be traced to the greed of the high-level corporate managers who treat their employees with contempt. However, this is not the fault of the public sector.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Moorlach going to push the panic button again like he did in ‘95, and loose millions of $ and try to make himself a hero. OCERS has made a 10% plus, 5 year annualized return as of June 30th, (FACT)! Look it up on http://www.ocers.org Moorlach needs a better agenda, this one is really weak.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
CSU long beach educated. that is the problem. only people from ivy league schools should manage money. a few top state schools graduate people that can manage money. the rest of the folks are not smart enough to manage money. i noticed most people living in my bayshore sub in newport went to the best schools. the rest of the people are not smart enough to figure how to get these properties. no suprise.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Geezer
The men and women of OCSD have contirbuted to this. They had to pay into to the account. Go back and look at the contract negotiations, it will show that they agreed to contribute and DID contribute. Are they going to give them all the money they put into back or are they going to take back their part of the agreement and literally steal money from them? You can not go back and take this away. You may start to negoiate new contracts for new law enforcement, but the ones that have been on the job, you can not take that away from them. I strongly disagree with even trying to take it away from new recruits, I think our quality of recruits will diminish and there fore put the safety of everyone at stake. Not worth it to me. Look at other cities, look at other depts, OCSD is not the highest paid and they have the same retirement that everyone else does. These quality sheriff’s are going to lateral out to a dept that will show them respect. Shame on the citizen of this county for going after them. What ever happened to respecting law enforcement?
September 6th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Cops, firefighters, teachers, county gardeners … you need to wake up. Do you really think you are SERVING THE PUBLIC when you are draining us dry to fund your own lavish retirement plans. Retiring at age 50 with 90% of your last years’ “spiked” income is outrageous. You seem to have tunnel vision on this issue. You have no Idea what it takes for the average business owner or private sector employee to save for retirement. Or is it that you think we don’t work as hard or risk as much. Years of union manipulation of government officials has resulted in your exorbidant benefits not a free market for your services.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
John Moorlach is a hero and the most honorable government official in the state if not the country. He is attacking his own pension plan because he knows it is not right for taxpayers to have to pay for such a lavish retirement plan when they may be going into their own retirement in abject poverty. Where is the good, honest cop, firefighter or teacher who will criticize his or her own pension plan and truly serve the public by calling for a fair plan that will allow everyone, private and public sector workers alike , to have a comfortable retirement.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
90% salary at 50 is total pork. Should be 40% at 55 and 65% at 65. Some people here thing there is something extra special about this blue collar work.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
It is now over 27% underfunded or about $2.9 Billion. We taxpayers will need to cover that shortage and at the same time try to save a little something for our own retirement.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
It’s interesting that even with a 10% five year annualized return the OCERS retirement plan has gotten even further underfunded. It is now over 27% underfunded or about $2.9 Billion. We taxpayers will need to cover that shortage and at the same time try to save a little something for our own retirement.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
In the late 70’s through the 80’s California government employee unions lobbied, strong-armed politicians, publicly demonstrated, and declared strikes … all “to get parity with private sector counterparts.
Today, I agree that they should be brought into complete ‘parity’ with their private sector counterparts … including worker reductions of 50% and more, elimination of pensions and retirement plans, reduction and elimination of health benefits, reduction and elimination of ‘comp-days,’ etc. etc.
Government employee unions clamored for parity with the private sector … they should now get the parity they called strikes over!
September 6th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
John Moorlach a hero?? A hero sandwich maybe. The fat slob is a corrupt thief.
As for all the geniuses that think the police and sheriffs are their public servants, sorry folks. Servitude went out with Abe Lincoln. I never bought into that crap.
I won’t address the mongoloid jackass who thinks I patrol OC and live in Riverside. How someone can determine this from behind a stolen keyboard in their Stanton trailer is amazing. Finance talk? I know I do better than you, don’t I jackass……
September 6th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
>>># auntie_green Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
lawman, just a suggestion but maybe if you were not so rude, people might take you more seriously.<<<
Like I give a rat’s ass how you slob cop-haters think.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Stocks, bonds, investments, etc. are not guarenteed. The market goes up, the market goes down. You cannot trust all money in these types of investments. OC should have learned its lesson after the early 90’s.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Where does it say that John was opposed to the Sheriff pension giveaway?
He wasn’t opposed and he was an elected officials who gave it a pass. He is just as gulity at creating this nitemare as Citron’s questionable investments.
Only now, he is saying that we need a safeguard to keep unions from infiltrating the minds of the so-called most conservative supervisors in California.
He give alot of too much credit for the pension giveaway to the police unions because the union pressure was minimal and mostly threats of police officers moving to agencies that adopted the 90% at 50 formula.
He was fooled not pressured. In fact, many were fooled. There were a few like myself who questioned the giveaway in the OC Register.
Why do we need elected representatives when they feel that they should not be held accountable for their actions and need the voters to approve expenditures? What are we paying the 100’s of thousands of dollars for these supervisorsn their benefits and their staff when they just sit back and smaile as officeholder responsibilties goes to the voters.
It is apparent given that John doesn’t mention in this story his support of the 2001 giveaway or his opposition to it that he is like many other Republican hilders in America who can’t admit they made a mistake and take individual responsiblity in it.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
some of you do not know the first thing about these pensions its frightening if you work 10-15 years at a city or county job your only entitled to a percentage of your yearly salary about 20-40 percent of that salary depending on if you leave at 50 or 55 ideally 55 you stay longer you get more but everybody gets the same formula which is a problem you should get a good pension if your a cop or fireman and you put in 30-35 years people give me a break and for mr. poorlach i suggest you watch your step about this issue because i read an article about after this was initated you stupidvisors spent 500,000 dollars on office furniture ever heard of ikea be part of the solution not part of the problem not to mention your outrageous salaries.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
For the record, Moorlach was NOT a supervisor when this retroactive pension increase was approved in 2001. He was county treasurer, and he urged the Board of Supervisors NOT to approve it. He did not become a supervisor until 2006.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Moorlach is the only public official with the stones to face off these selfish, greedy swine lined up at the public feeding trough. Personally, I look forward to the next country bankrupcy when emergency measures will require deep, deep cuts in public employees salaries and pension benefits. It will be a real knee slapper watching all those fat slops squealing at the trough and chasing their squiggly tails as the slop runs dry! haha.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
I don’t work for OC, but I do work for a large city law enforcement agency, where we have a retirement/pension. We pay a portion of each paycheck into this, the city contributes (in place of Social Security taxation), and it is supposed to be properly invested to cover our future payouts. We DO NOT pay into Social Security, and most of us who have paid some into in the past will still not be eligible to collect SSI when we retire. Many of our personnel have also contributed to deferred compensation plans offered to us, only to see that money being flushed away, also. So what would some of you tell these folks that are retiring in the next year or so, have tried to plan, save, and invest through programs offered, only be told “Oops, we’re sorry, you don’t get nearly what you were guaranteed.” Lawman is right, we don’t take public service jobs for the big bucks, the glamor, the fabulous hours and shifts. We work nights, overnights, weekends, holidays, our kid’s birthdays, our anniversaries, etc, etc. - so that you can have police and fire, and other vital city services. In return, we are verbally and physically abused and threatened by the public, regularly sold out by our top level officials, sued, pilloried in the media, etc. Yep, it’s quite the life…but most of us can’t imagine doing anything else. So go ahead and bash us for going out there every day and trying our best to make your city services run as well as possible, and tell us, please tell us, that we aren’t entitled to the retirement fund that we’ve been contributing to.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
WOW!
September 6th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Who is managing the pension fund, Bob Citron reincarnated?
September 6th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
I have no problem with their retirement. only that it starts at 50 to 52. Let it take effect at 62 like the rest of us.
September 6th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Let’s eliminate all pensions and let them enjoy a 401k like the rest of society. I don’t think it’s the taxpayers job to fund their tee times.
September 6th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Well, at least now we know ocobserver is just a dirtbag cop-hater. I thought so.
Some of these people make me vomit. You don’t hear a word out of them about the police when the economy’s good. But when the economy’s in the tank, they come after the benefits the police fought so hard for so many years to get.
Absolutely sickening. The reason we are eligible to retire at 50 is due to the fact that a hell of a lot of officers fought for that benefit. If an officer has 30 years in by that time, THEN he gets the big pension. Thirty years is long enough. You goddam people are running around like hens with your heads cut off just repeating rumor.
You don’t like our benefits as compared to the crap you have? Good. Move somewhere else. I’ll stay right here in the good ol’ OC enjoying the money. Make the officers stubborn with all their political muscle…….go right ahead.
September 6th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Just to clarify, police officers and firefighters may get to retire with 90% at 50 years, but please don’t think for a minute that teachers do. Under our current retirement plan (which we pay 8% of our salary into for our entire career), we could never retire with 90%. In fact, we would have to work until age 70 to receive 80% and I don’t know many teachers who can work until 70. I’m not saying that our pension isn’t good, it is a consolation prize for a lower salary when comparing the amount of higher education most of us receive. It is not, nor has it ever been as good as pensions received by police officers and firefighters. I’m really not knocking their pensions, just clarifying because we seem to all be lumped together.
September 6th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
this is a joke - public employees are so overpaid in OC its sick… but the thing that none of them understand is that they are slitting their own throat. when there is no money left, there is no money left….. lets face it, these employees feel they are the economy, lol, cops and teachers and fireman have always been voluntary - in the end they still will be.
September 6th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
I work in local government, but I am not in law enforcement or a firefighter.
I work what most would consider a white collar job and I think I get paid a good wage. My retirement is 2.7% at 55 meaning I will get 2.7% of my final salary for every year I work when I retire. I do have the ability of using my own money to purchase about 6 years of service. So if I work a total of 27 years and purchase my time…which will cost I think around 80K, I could retire with 90% of my salary. I would be around 58 or so if I did that.
I just wanted people to understand a bit about how the system works for non-sworn government people.
Now, I do know that people that do my job in the private sector get a 20% to 30% higher salary than I do. I also know that most of them have stock options and profit sharing and other bonuses that go along with their job. They also have a larger risk of being laid off when the economy isnt doing so well, but when things are doing great they are likely doing much better than most of your public employees.
The reason I chose public service is that I like working with people, developers and I enjoy the job security that a government job brings. Like I said, I could probably move into the private sector and make a decent amount more when times are good, but I enjoy the stability that I have now.
County and City governments must stay competitive if they want to maintain the best and brightest. When you begin to lower salaries and benefits for them, you will lose them to the private sector.
What will happen is most government agencies will than be required to hire private consultants to do many of the jobs that are currently done by their employees that will go elsewhere. What you lose is the personal touch and the buy in that these employees have.
It would be much like hiring a bunch of temps to run any business, they typically could care less about customer service or truly helping people.
Most government employees wont collect Social Security, or have a large 401K, etc. The pension is typically all they will have to live on.
I will say that it is a pretty good gig. I do have it pretty good.
It is important to understand that as a government employee, you are under much greater scrutiny than many other jobs. I am responsible to the people ultimately, that is my job. Another thing is the ability to advance in government is much more difficult than in other fields. The education requirements are typically greater for example.
I’m not fully justifying the system, it does have it’s flaws. There are loopholes. People who take advantage of overtime and disability, etc.
I just think that in order to get the quality of service that most residents expect, you have to pay for it. You truly will get what you pay for.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
If you think that was a lot, wait until Monday.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
trs has the IQ of a goat……
September 6th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Moorlach should put his retirement where his mouth is. He is drawing and has been drawing 2.7 at 55. This is pert neer what the deputies get.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
It’s ironic how most law enforcement officers are conservative and vote Republican while these same Republicans that they voted for are trying to screw them over.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
And the police don’t work FOR the private sector. The police work for everybody. And that means a hell of a lot more than just the private sector.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
>>># jake Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
It’s ironic how most law enforcement officers are conservative and vote Republican while these same Republicans that they voted for are trying to screw them over.<<<
Ding ding ding!! Jake is correct. But we’re learning fast. Many officers these days no longer vote straight Republican without question. We’ve learned that the only time Republican politicians are pro-police is at election time when they want to appear “tough on crime” and they get their picture taken in front of a black and white surrounded by grinning cops.
It’s the Republican Party that has declared war on public safety pensions. Wayne Quint, if you’re reading this, jump in and tell me I’m right.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Lawman. We’re all glad you’re not out on the street with your anger and a taser. Calm down, calm down. Let everyone voice their opinion - it’s the the anger you speak with that discredits your words. Be the voice of reason and expience and you may be heard. May not be, but for absolutely certainty you’re not now. All anyone can hear is that anger.
September 6th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Do not mischaracterize being a “cop-hater” with a person who is just interested in financial transparency.
There is nothing wrong with Moorlach’s statement. I was initially disturbed by the OC Watchdog’s comments about Moorlach in the past.
In researching the situation, it appears that this column sometimes tilts the impression of the reader. May I encourage you to call Moorlach’s office directly?
Have you?
I doubt it. Don’t form your opinion of someone’s position without calling the office directly.
You may not be far from their position and may be antagonistic for no reason.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
>>># Not Even Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Lawman. We’re all glad you’re not out on the street with your anger and a taser. Calm down, calm down. Let everyone voice their opinion - it’s the the anger you speak with that discredits your words. Be the voice of reason and expience and you may be heard. May not be, but for absolutely certainty you’re not now. All anyone can hear is that anger.<<<
Worry about yourself. What the hell do you mean “we’re all glad……” What’d you do………run around interviewing everybody? I run on anger. I see nothing wrong with it. It helps me stay on top of things. Tasers?? What’re you, 25 years old? Hell, we didn’t use Tasers. There was no such thing. You moved when we told you to move. If you didn’t, you got hit on the ass with a nightstick. If you pulled a knife or a gun, we’d cancel your ticket right then and there.
I realize we’re a society of vaginas now, and the law is no longer enforced. But it used to be. Hell of a shame the way things are now.
You worry about yourself. You’ve probably got a full time job on your hands.
As for Strongside, same goes for you. I wouldn’t lower myself to call the fat corrupt slob. But I will work to get him thrown off the BOS. That will happen. Nobody ever made any money pissing off the police.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Wow, TRS, you are a bit conceeded huh? Ivy league doesn’t translate into automatice wealth. The free market let these folks obtain their retirement and the free market will get the rest of us out of the hole. Why do you think this is happening in costa measa, fountain valley, etc…???? In your neck of the woods this type of corruption wouldn’t occur. Leave your pompus ideas out of the equation.
Loving capitolist
September 7th, 2008 at 12:03 am
OMG this is one of the reasons our country is
headed to hell in a handbasket- friggin over paid
government employees- hey lawmaker
get ready to watch your pension fund go broke
as our country enters into the worst economic
recession since the great depression which
will devastate the city county state and federal
pension funds- GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES
are overpaid overrated under worked parasites
of society- the coming economic recession will
be even more devastating because of all the pie in the sky
pension promises that were made to these ungrateful
idiots- the government payroll is so bloated with
useless positions its downright criminal
TRS youve just reconfirmed what a clueless idiot
you really are— the richest man in the world–
bill gates– was an IVY LEAGUE college dropout–
the IVY LEAGUE GENIUSES you refer to are the
imbiciles who were in charge of such great
companies as BEAR STEARNS AND ENRON-
george bush is borderline retarded and he went to YALE
your IVY LEAGUE geniuses are the idiots who have
brought our economy to the brink of full fledged
depression- hell any high school drop-out knows that
September 7th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Lawman, you said
“Nobody ever made any money pissing off the police.”
Rodney King made $3.8 million
September 7th, 2008 at 12:55 am
>>># Johnb Says:
September 7th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Lawman, you said
“Nobody ever made any money pissing off the police.”
Rodney King made $3.8 million :(<<<
Rodney King is on food stamps in Rialto, Ca. as we speak. He did not make 3.8 mil. He took home less than a mil which true to the individual, is long gone.
Johnnie Cochran, who thankfully is taking a dirt nap, got the rest. Interesting bit of info for all you trivia fans out there…..The LAPD Four had never been in trouble prior to giving Rodney that richly deserved beating. They haven’t been in trouble since. Rodney on the other hand, was a convicted liquor store robber who had done state time at the time the LAPD flogged him. Rodney has been arrested at least 12 times since that incident by my count. He’s done nothing but be what he’s always been…….trash.
And yet, certain folks regard that piece of dung as a civil rights figure. Makes me laugh out loud……………..or cry.
September 7th, 2008 at 1:53 am
So…he is right again and people hate the truth…what is new?
September 7th, 2008 at 4:11 am
Some county buildings are kept so cold that county workers need heaters, blankets, and winter coats in the middle of summer. The county could save money by not wasting electricity.
There are many county workers who work very hard and they help keep county residents safe from criminals and epidemics. Other county workers leave early, come in late, and spend a lot of their time at parties for county employees on county time at the expense of tax payers.
September 7th, 2008 at 7:30 am
I wonder is there could be some kind of moderator to this forum? Many people here want to have a real discussion. One just seems to want to insult people . It wold be nice if a moderator could delete those posts so people could actually have a discussion.
September 7th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I think octaxpayer is Moorlach. With self-serving comments like, “John Moorlach is a hero and the most honorable government official in the state if not the country” you have to wonder. If he’s not Moorlach, he needs to take his head out of Moorlach’s a$$.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:55 am
My question is all the time when the goverment mencion about there is no money for ritirements people they are going to increase or force the people to work two more years, in that way people can support on its way , and the goverment can forgot about for two or more years so what the deal. Maybe in the future we probably we re going to rityre no into we get to the 90’s . So why don’t we change to the 55’s in tha way old people can enjoy the years for the one they work har with out to say the how much the goverment take out every pay check in the whole life.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:59 am
If you can’t handle it, don’t look at it. It’s a hot button issue. You may think it’s insulting, and maybe sometimes it is, but I call it reality. There’s plenty of insults flying around from a number of posters, but I’m not going to snivel about it.
Don’t expect me to lay down for someone’s uninformed drivel.
September 7th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Can anyone other than octaxpayer(Mario Maneiro?) and ocobserver(Mike Schroeder?) shed light on what the actual “unfunded liability” is, how it works? Lotsa venom here and little info. Maybe OCR financial guy can brief miss sforza a little, or, god forbid, write an informative article himself?
September 7th, 2008 at 9:31 am
LawDork is your basic GED educated cop who thinks he is “entitled” to scam the taxpayers.
I have spanked him before and will do it again, and again, and again.
That fat slob of a donut eater should just ride relax in his doublewide trailer and suck down some beer and chips-he is too damn stupid to do anything else.
Oldski is just that, an old, fat PD slob living at the public trough.
September 7th, 2008 at 9:44 am
It’s unfortunate that all you talk about just cops here, it’s not just police officers it’s the overall pension benefits that various government workers are getting that is a ticking time bomb, law enforcement is one example.
September 7th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Lawman:
You are a real piece of work. Stolen computer from my trailer in Stanton. Wow you are utterly misinformed. For starters I work in the LA office of a Wall Street bank you moron. Face it PIG…you simply do not know what you are talking about. I bet you are unaware of the liquidity issues the county is currently having with its auction rate bonds. I bet you are unaware that your crappy Pig pension is backed by POBs because the county can’t afford to pay the pension and medical bills for you fat retired sloppy dirty crooked SOB’s Enjoy your statistical early death!
One less PIG for us “private sector folks” to subsidize.
September 7th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Cool down guys.
On the one hand, we want good men and women working as cops, firefighters, and EMTs to come running to protect us when we need them. Their jobs involve plenty of life-and-death risk, and they earn their relatively modest benefits after a hard career.
On the other hand, as taxpayers we need guys like John Moorlach, who must calculate closely where we stand in funding these benefits. Clearly, right now there is a financial problem we have to deal with.
Two different character types, two different jobs. We need them both.
September 7th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Welcome to Orange County !!!
September 7th, 2008 at 10:53 am
lawman & idiot pig, why don’t you two go meet out in the dessert somewhere and end this for everyone else’s benefit. You’re both so full of crap you’ve made this entire thread useless.
idiot has the perfect name and not much else needs to be said other than drop the first three words from it. Lawman, if you are actually a cop you should know better. You’re a lousy representative for the police. To be honest, I think YOU are actually the cop hater and are just posting like this to make other people hate cops.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:00 am
To “Lawman is an idiot pig”
Sounds like you are well aware of the financial disaster that is occurring in government on federal, state, and local levels.
Please review the OC Watchdog columns on Cal Optima. I believe that there may be a linkage between the poor performance of Cal Optima and the healthcare crisis in our area.
May I offer you one quick piece of unsolicited advice?
Attempting to teach a pig has only two results.
It wastes the teacher’s time.
and
It makes the pig mad.
Care to help out the county by reviewing the situation at Cal Optima?
We need an independent auditor to step in, if Moorlach won’t or can’t for procedural reasons.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:12 am
It is amazing that Moorlach’s powerful cheerleaders at the O.C. Register never mention his failure to sound the financial and legal alarms as the County Treasurer in 2001 when this alleged illegal gift of funds took place. Rather they continue in their efforts to paint him as a financial messiah and saint, when nothing could be farther from the truth.
This faulty reporting by the Register has allowed Moorlach’s hypocrisy to reach a height that only a true megalomaniac could attain. He continues to demonize the 2001 County Board of Supervisors as well as castigated current board members who oppose him. Yet he never mentions the thousands, and eventually, millions of taxpayers’ dollars he will have cause to be wasted on the futile lawsuit he pushed to be filed to overturn the legally binding contract signed in 2001 with the deputies union. We all need to remember this and take steps to ensure that Mr. Moorlach is lame duck supervisor who has no chance at reelection.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Well, people who call the police pigs are dirtbags. I’m misinformed? Hell, you made keyboard assumptions about me and now you can’t take the heat without going on your period. I grew up in Los Angeles. I have found that people who work downtown in one of the so-called Wall Street firms have no job security and here today and gone tomorrow. Their job depends on how much of the boss’s butt they can get in their mouth.
Nobody in this household is fat, dirty, or sloppy. It’s not tolerated. Speak for yourself little girl.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Lots of cop-haters in here.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Well, people who call the police pigs are dirtbags. I’m misinformed? Hell, you made keyboard assumptions about me and now you can’t take the heat without going on your period. I grew up in Los Angeles. I have found that people who work downtown in one of the so-called Wall Street firms have no job security and here today and gone tomorrow. Their job depends on how much of the boss’s butt they can get in their mouth.
Nobody in this household is fat, dirty, or sloppy. It’s not tolerated. Speak for yourself little girl.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:44 am
when there is no money there will be no pention…
September 7th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
let’s not forget County employees contributes to their retirement too, it’s taken out of their checks every two weeks like the social security does and even bigger. When the new retirement package 2.7@55was approved, they started taking out chunks of money from their checks too on top of the old retirement contribution deductions. And in fact you private sectors has 401k w/ employer matching not like county employees they get 457 savings without a cent matching from the county. They rely pretty much on the retirement based on the years of service and years of putting up with incompetent bosses. So let’s not all blame the county employees, they had there shares too…..
September 7th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Taxpayers that do not qualify for county pensions are unlikely to approve increases to a pension system that pays 90% to a retiree at 50, 55 or even 60 for that matter. The fact that the voters don’t already have the control of these enhancements is now unacceptable. I don’t believe the BOS should make this decision at all. It’s a taxpayers decision. As John said, “Let the unions make their case to the people, instead of just three county supervisors.” but I have to tell you, in my case, that is going to be one tough sell.
September 7th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I eat bacon, hot dogs, ham, and sausage for breakfast.
Take a chill pill and get some decaff “lawman”.
If you are a member of LEO, your behavior on this blog is unprofessional.