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OC Boy Scouts wrestle the economic downturn
August 26th, 2008, 9:00 am · 55 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
The Watchdog ran her take on the finances of Orange County’s Boy Scout Council past Scout officials; she is thankful to Scout spokesperson Lara Fisher for getting back to her so quickly.
Fisher didn’t get into the 61 percent increase in management spending between 2006 and 2007, or the executive’s 8 percent raise as revenues dropped some 24 percent, but we’ve asked her to address those specifics if she can.
Here is what Fisher had to say:
I want to catch you up on the Orange County Council’s recent efforts to control costs in a down economy.
As we shared with Tony Saavedra in June 2008, we responded to a downturn in the economic market by lowering our budget 7 percent, to $8.4 million. We announced that scouting programs in Orange County will continue to offer today’s youth the types of programs that develop leadership skills. Cutbacks will not affect service to the county’s scouting community.
The primary reason for the budget reduction was due to shortfalls in fundraising events involving donors in the construction and real estate industries.
To cope with this downturn, we reduced our workforce and eliminated 11 staff positions. An additional two full-time positions will end at the close of 2008. These positions will remain open into 2009.
Before making this difficult decision, the Council Cabinet continually reviewed the budget for ways to generate more income and reduce expenses. We were successful in reducing expenses by more than $300,000, separate from the reduction in salary expenses.
The Council operates four outdoor properties and the Council headquarters.
Newport Sea Base: Providing sailing, canoeing, kayaking, boating safety, marine conservation and aquatic classes for boys and girls, the Newport Sea Base is a gateway to learning all the wonders of the sea.
Oso Lake: With a 100-acre lake and 15 acres of land, Oso Lake offers many programs for Scouts: water conservation, catch-and-release bass fishing, boating, paleontology and camping skills. Located near Rancho Santa Margarita and surrounded by O’Neill Regional Park, Oso Lake is easily accessible to all units.
Outdoor Education Center: Scheduled to open in 2009.
Located near Irvine Regional Park, the 210-acre camping oasis will serve as the gateway to the great outdoors for youth groups, organizations, schools, families and Scouting programs. On August 12, 2005, The Irvine Company deeded to the Orange County Council, Boy Scouts of America, title to 210 acres of land for an “outdoor educational center” benefiting all Orange County youth.
Schoepe Scout Reservation at Lost Valley: Set among 1,400 rugged acres in North San Diego County and surrounded by the Cleveland National Forest, Anza-Borrego State Park, and Los Coyotes Indian Reservation, and at 4,500 feet, trees and wildlife are etched into the scenery, affording forest views, natural sounds, and animal encounters. Swimming, archery, horseback riding, COPE courses, and shooting sports are some of the activities offered to participants.
William Homes Center for Scouting: A training and meeting center, program and supply distribution location and administrative facility for the community.
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I will agree with Ms. Fisher from a personal review of their 990s that the economic downturn has not result in any decrease in financial support in program services between the returns. That is dedication to our Children (mine included).
Thank you so much for posting this article. Sorry for my comments about this being a smear campaign. The truth is these programs really benefit our children and their funding sources are hit during economical downturns. It is sad to see people let go during these times; however, it happens in all industries when money is not available. It was reassuring to personally see the same amount of money being spent in both years to Scouting Programs in light of the economy - that is dedication to our children.
For those that want to ensure Scouting Programs and Opportunities remain available for our Youth, please visit ocbsa.org and gscoc.org.
Thank you for your help and making a difference in the life of so many children.
Alan,
I share your appraisal of the situation at BSA. Not only am I impressed with the longevity of the OC Council, but I am also impressed with the volunteer commitment.
I am not impressed with the lack of focus by the OC Register staff and this blog on other non-profits operating in this county.
Specifically, I am following these tax returns after Teri posted the information about guidestar.org.
The tax returns on the BSA are clearly philanthropic.
The tax returns on the hospitals in our county are not clearly philanthropic.
While these hospitals perform poorly, have lousy mortality rates, and permit foreign trained doctors to control key decisions; US board certified physicians are driven from practice by the collusion at Cal Optima and the hospital risk pools.
Will Teri provide this community with equal attention on these life-and-death issues to permit the public discourse?
Hey Strongsidejedi - I think I returned a call to you earlier today.
We have done stories about nonprofit hospital foundations, and I assure you that we will look at nonprofit hospitals as well. We’ve only been publishing for a month, but if you click on “nonprofits” under the “CATEGORIES” to the right, you’ll see who we’ve looked at so far.
Ms. Sforza,
Can we review the Association for Firefighters & Paramedics 990 where only 80K of their 3.9M went to programs?
We already have. Click on “nonprofits” under the “CATEGORIES” heading to the right, and you’ll see it; it’s titled, “OC charity for burn victims burns donors.”
Ms. Sforza,
Sorry I was expecting it under Charity Check-Up like we are doing here with the Boy Scouts in Orange County and Irving, TX.
Can you link me? I followed the directions and searched for the word burn and did not find the article.
I hope it exposes the details like has been done here on the 3.9M expenses and mere 80K in programs.
Thanks
Yeah, you need to go after those other guys too. They look pretty seedy. But, while we are all here, could you go a little bit deeper into investigating the BSA? I mean, it looks like the other bad guys are taking a whipping by the other posters, and don’t need any of your help.
Who did they eliminate? I checked the 2007 roster to the 2008 roster and it was support staff, secretaries some with 10-15 years at the BSA with most making <$40,000. Ask them about the lady who answered the phone for 15 years, Mary Underwood making <$30,000. What about Tina Hernandez making <$32,000 who worked there for 10 years? If one person on the “Council Cabinet” had been eliminated and Les had been fired, all 11 these positions would have been saved. The fact that for 2 years we have been talking about Les Baron and the fact that I am sitting here writing and we are still hearing about him show the terrible board oversight and responsibility the OCBSA has. Take some real action and restore the faith, sticking with this guy (who was making $140,000 in Tampa just 3 1/2 years ago) is only dragging the BSA futher down.
Teri,
I do not know who you returned a call to, but you did not speak with me today.
Moreover, your preoccupation with the BSA is strange.
BSA has been serving the young men of this county several times longer than your short career.
So, if you want to discuss non-profit efficiency of service, I suggest that you create a category for the hospitals and POST IT.
Perhaps you can also post a listing on other youth oriented organizations such as the Boys and Girls Clubs.
Say, were you ever working for CHOC Foundation or Hoag Foundation or some other grant seeking organization?
I have to wonder.
Because the hand waving on the BSA is typical of progressive liberals who want to cloud the moral picture.
BSA has championed the development of moral young men who do work for the rest of their lives in service of the nation.
Am I missing something Teri?
Let’s stop the cheap shots at the BSA and OC Council.
Start posting real numbers on the OTHER non-profits in the county, not blank or missing rickrolling.
OK I’ll wade into this fact filled discussion.
Let’s compare the BSA executive salary to the salaries of another “kid” oriented OC organization… Children’s Hospital of Orange County.
CHOC is a major advertiser in OC Register and their community papers too.
So, they won’t post these things without having a phone call from their PR team.
The top paid executives at CHOC consume $4,369,374 in tax payer funds. The top paid independent contractors consume another $28,180,343 in tax payer funds.
Highest paid executives (consuming $4,369,374.00 in 2005)
(Page 9 of 32 appears to list Kim Cripe and Kerri Ruppert salary as zero. This unusual statement is also reflected in a statement on the Board of Directors. However, if you look at the tax return for Children’s Healthcare of California (a related organization), you will find the pertinent information. It appears that Ms. Ruppert chooses to post her salary related to CHOC on the CHC return. It is also interesting that the Children’s Healthcare of California return lists that Kim Cripe spends 2 hours per week working on the non-profit.
$1,101,159 - Kim Cripe - Chief Executive Officer - $846,394 in compensation, $215,965 in benefits, and $38,800 in expense accounts
$679,794 - Kerri Ruppert - Chief Financial Officer - $517,989 in compensation, $136,561 in benefits, and $25,244 in expense accounts
$630,424 - Maria Minon - Ex-officio Director - $441,664 in compensation, $168,489 in benefits, $20,271 expense account
$400,223 - Mark Headland - VP & Chief Info Officer - $311,194 in compensation, $79,342 in benefits, $9,687 expense account
$387,372 - Dana Bledsoe - VP Patient Services - $292,566 in compensation, $79,415 in benefits, $15,391 expense account
$384,629 - Margaret Conk - VP Business Development - $277,699 in compensation, $87,209 in benefits, $19,721 expense account
$280,331 - Theresa E. Gianfortune - VP Human Resources - $220,109 in compensation, $70,254 in benefits, $9,968 expense account
$271,990 - David R. Schinderle - VP Finance - $196,870 in compensation, $61,107 in benefits, $14,013 expense account
$233,452 - Steve O’Kane - Ex-officio director - $213,000 in compensation, 0 in benefits, $20,452 in expense account
Anyone who calls themselves a Jedi needs to get a life. Its a movie dude.
When did being liberal cloud morals? Look in you Webster Jedi man. Yoda was a liberal, Darth Vader a conservative.
Its the news, get over it. If the OCBSA had done something when this story started 2 years ago there wouldn’t be a story anymore. Instead they have done nothing except lose members, lose funding, lose the United Way, lose board members, drop programs, lose 2 camps (Rancho las Flores and Whites Landing), lay off staff, incure debt and secure OCR interest……wonder why???
Keep it up Teri, where there is a smell there is bound to be…..
PS CHOC is a 300M$ organization, the BSA a 8M$ one, lets compare apples to apples not grapes
Slam dunk!!!!! You’ve crystallized my thoughts about CHOC. They are bad people and should be shot. What else is there to be said? I’m so glad to get them off my list of rogue boards. Now, we can turn to tougher issues. What’s up with the Boy Scout OC Council’s board?
Can we stop clouding the issue. Some people here are just pointing fingers at others, yet not responding about problems within their own group. Let’s take care of one group at a time.
The Boy Scout leadership could start making a good example by cutting top management pay. If you cut their pay in half, most of this problem goes away. THEN you can point fingers at other groups.
Here is the unclouded facts on the management of Boy Scouts here in Orange County:
Between 2000 and 2006 Boy Scouts of America has more then doubled their revenue growth.
Between 2003 and 2006 the Boy Scouts sold over $4M in assets. This includes camp assets in the amount of $1.4M following back to back years in 2002 & 2003 of less then half the normal public contributions. Since then asset sales are under control with less then 200K gain from security sales in 2006.
Les Baron replaced Kent Gibbs as the Scout Executive in 2004 at a savings of $100,000 in compensation in 2004! Since 2004 under Les Baron management program revenues continue to increase over a $1M annually as Scouts pay their share for program sponsered events - and yes scholarships are available for those who cannot afford the $30-35 weekend fees for camp. I strongly urge the Community to support fundraising efforts as a portion of the revenue (30% average) remain with the Pack to help their neighborhood based families attend the Scouting programs at a reduced cost.
Under Les Baron management public support nearly doubled since 2003 following back to back years where revenue from public contributions was flat.
Now I personally think Les Baron is worth the same if not more salary then Kent Gibbs was paid for his outstanding efforts to clean up the balance sheet and promote Scouting to the Community.
The fact remains that 2006 was an adjustment year as public contributions went from nearly $12M to $7M due in part to an economic slowdown and discontinue of support for Community Organizations that support leadership in our Youth by the United Way.
If you want to look at the numbers yourself, download them from GuideStar.
P.S. johnb - a good way to respond to the problem is getting involved which you still have not commented on my personal challenge for you to do just that.
Alan, I’ve been involved in volunteering for other groups. I majored in sign language, taught a Sunday school class for deaf children for 14 years. Most supplies, treats and trips were paid for my me.
I supported my church (Calvary Chapel), through donations of money, supplies and time.
I’ve sponsered children through the Christian Child’s Fund for over 25 years.
I did give to groups through the United Way until I found out what the leadership took in pay.
At this time I am my mother’s caregiver. I keep her out of the Medi-Cal system, where it would cost over $4000 a month by the state putting her in a nursing home. She’ll also live alot longer being cared for by me, and not them.
Alan,
Who the hell are you to tell us that we aren’t involved enough? You don’t know two things about us, and you make assumptions and impose yourself as the moral leadership.
Go give charity on the corner and pray loudly to God so everyone can hear you.
And yes, I have cleaned up the beach.
Alan, I would not support the fund raising, until there’s a change at the top. It seems the people at the top, want others to sacrifice and support the kids, while they take salaries of over $500,000 a year. Believe me, the people at the top really cared, they would cut their own pay in half. They could easily get by on $200,000 a year and give the rest back to support the scouts.
About needing to pay for the best, even at half the salary they’d stay on. Where else are they going to make $200,000 a year?
Bucky Says:
Who the hell are you to tell us that we aren’t involved enough?
Is that NOT what you are trying to say about the Executives at the Orange County Council of Boy Scouts? They are not involved enough nor do they make enough change to warrant pay increases and managing expenses are unwarranted because they do not have the revenue even if they care about the Community.
Johnb Says:
Where else are they going to make $200,000 a year?
Almost anywhere in management with their education, training and experience. In fact organizations would likely pay Les what at least what Kent (if not a lot more) was making based on his financial stability he has helped obtain for the Orange County Council.
Tu quoque. I am not convinced that they care about anything, but are well paid to go through the motions of caring.
There is a difference between allowing you to say that we are not doing our moral duty to society and the bosses doing their fiduciary duty to do good.
Either way, paint me a hypocrite all day and night. The BSA is supposed to be out in front, leading by example. So, don’t use me or anyone else as a yardstick.
What education does Les and Kent have? Could they do the same without the BSA franchise?
Bucky Says:
Either way, paint me a hypocrite all day and night.
What education does Les and Kent have? Could they do the same without the BSA franchise?
I did not paint that image, sorry. And plus you have to love the anonymous nature of blogs.
Regarding the education of these gentlemen you would have to inquire with them or maybe research the internet a little to get the correct facts.
Alan,
You write a lot, so it takes a lot of reading. There is no agenda here. Some of us are involved, but don’t like the oversight at the top. In fact, we’re tired of hearing about the ACLU, the Atheists, the grassy knolls, and other conspiracies when we’re a little concerned.
I’m not there yet, but even if we did agree in fact, we would probably not agree in attitude. The total compensation is a lot of money. That is a value judgment on my part. The increase in total compensation is a lot of money. Again, ‘a lot’ is a value judgment.
Where I draw issue is where we compare ourselves to others. The Boy Scouts projects itself as the brand name in moral leadership. Those against the raises may compare total compensation with other NFP bosses to discuss a hard maximum for what the Scout Exec should earn. As the article that Johnb linked us to stated, this is a bit of a issue in the whole NFP sector, and some find it a fuzzy gray area. So, the best we’re going to get here is that we are only as gray as the other guys.
Dude,
Les Baron was in Tampa during the membership scandal? Should we start looking for padded rosters and ghost units? Or would that be a witch hunt?
The entire purpose of posting the CHOC numbers is to provide comparison to a similar organiation. CHOC handles children’s issues but gets boat loads (or is it ambulance loads?) of government taxpayer money.
The BSA people get no tax payer money.
So, what gives?
CHOC gets a pass on paying an executive over 1 million a year with 10 million a month in tax payer money being captured by just the one hospital corporation alone.
Wall Street Journal publishes a story on how these non-profit hospitals become defacto anti-trust violators due to their conduct and place.
Meanwhile, the OC blogger is no where around due to “editor preference”.
It’s not right because it’s not real journalism when the spotlight is on a minor player when the big money is moving elsewhere.
The story is that a dozen people have a boat load of money at CHOC, all of it obtained from tax payers. But, none of those people deliver one second of care.
Alan,
Newspapers are taking heavy cuts, so I think that the best that we are going to see is some Google reporting (Googleporting?). I suspect some trigger happy reporters are just dying to put a nail in Mr. Baron’s coffin. Memberships scandals and attempts to patronize the community when they are disappointed have caused serious trust issues among some. But lack of trust should be enough to see him go.
I don’t think that any ghost units are going to be uncovered unless someone in the know comes forward. The OCR wouldn’t be the Woodward and Bernstein to meet in a dark parking garage, so the best we’ll have is not putting it past him. What counts as a padded roster anyway?
In the meantime, disaffected volunteers are wondering how their problems aren’t considered in the compensation of the Scout Exec. For my part, I think that the Boy Scouts should take a leadership role on the compensation issue and be not just say ‘everyone else is doing it.’ Off topic, but they use this excuse for the gay policy ‘well, the military is doing it.’ That’s not a very good moral compass.
You did not write the article. This blog, as you call it is related the “economic downturn” and how the Boy Scouts are wrestling with it.
The author concludes her assault on Boy Scouts by inferring them to have no securities to ensure long term operations.
Alan, you said “It is unfortunate that we had a recession and tough decisions had to be made and it hurt everyone from the youth and staff.” EVERYONE? EVERYONE? I don’t see the people at the top being hurt at all, in fact they seem to be prospering very well.
The author in no way assaulted the Boy Scouts. I have not seen any police reports of her assaulting any scouts.
She has just stated the facts. If anyone takes questioning an organization as an assault, that’s their problem.
Johnb Says:
She has just stated the facts.
Facts without equal comparisons and without the full disclosure of the facts - such as two of the three top executives retiring and staying on as a new Senior Executive was taking over.
What comparisons do you want? She asked the BSA two simple questions, which they never answered. The scouts could easily have taken 3 or 4 million, of the $629 million in holdings to save the jobs of 11 people that were let go and save the programs that were cut.. Why didn’t they? It seems they had no problem increasing their own COMPENSATION!
Another question, if revenues are down, and they had to make cuts, where did the money come from for their increased compensation?
Teri did not “just state the facts”.
She wrote headlines and stories which imply malfeasance.
Meanwhile, the OCR is utterly ignoring and choosing to not print information which is 10-100 times worse on other NPO’s which are getting BILLIONS of tax payer dollars.
Now, which is more important?
1. Spending Billions of Tax payer dollars when the State of California is 18 BILLION in the red?
or
2. BSA and how they use money donated to their organization by private donors?
Let’s get something straight here…. when Boys and Girls Clubs across the OC are getting tens of millions of dollars per YEAR and when hospitals are getting BILLIONS of dollars per year, I would say that press attention and focus belongs on how the TAXPAYER money is spent!
“Still, it was ranked as one of America’s most trusted charities by “high net-worth consumers” in a survey released this week by the Luxury Institute in New York.”
….and as more people learn how the top is being run (increasing their compensation while laying off staff and cutting programs), that trust will be gone. The BSA gained that trust through the BSA good name, which the top management will loose. After reading about the actions of the top leadership, I no longer support those on the top. The scouts and volunteers will suffer, not those at the top causing the damage.
So let me see … if National helped 300 Councils nationwide save 11 jobs from being cut with an average pay of $40,000. That would cost them $132,000,000 in salary and an average of at least another $10,560,000 in employer taxes. Oh you we also have to give them health insurance - almost forgot… add another $37,950,000. We are at least going to have to spend $180,510,000 to save those jobs for only ONE YEAR at the future lose of $81,229,500 over 10 years in interest.
Now my question to you … how much is 261,739,500 divided by 3,531,433 (amount of public support to the Boy Scouts in 2006) = 74 years and that does not even include another $667,887,000 in loss interest over those years…
Again everyone hurts in a recession and as you have experienced organizations have to make decisions in the best interest of the long term health of the organization.
Now let us look at the solution… Funding.
Oh I forgot to mention that those interest earnings pay for 32% of their programs. So now we have to cut the benefits the kids receive for the next 74 years and beyond just to save jobs for one year.
Again we can look at the problem or fix it by supporting the Boy Scouts of America through our own Funding. It is tough to invest in the future leadership of our Country with no personal monetary return on owns money.
Alan “That would cost them $132,000,000 “?
Check your math.
11 x $40,000 = $440,000.
You forgot - times 300 Councils throughout United States. Check you math and facts.
The recession did not just happen in Orange County…
Alan, please, you’re smarter then that (I think?) They laid off 11 people…ONLY 11, not 11 x 300.
Alan, you’re loosing it, read the article closely:
“To cope with this downturn, we reduced our workforce and eliminated 11 staff positions”.
They are not talking about all of Orange County. You’re now sounding like “strongside jedi”, LOL
Alan you forgot something. That $630 million is also earning interest and dividends. Just figuring 5% interest in one year on $630 million…..that would give them about $31 million a year, just in interestment payments for one year.
Next time try balancing the books with PROFIT and loss.
Alan is that YOUR own blog? Sure appears to be.
Alan, bottom line, knowing what I know now about the top leadership and their income, I would not donate one dime in cash to the BSA.
If people want to support them, they need to take the time to support only their local troop. I would suggest with supplies (not cash), that the troop would need. The troops should cut off as much flow of funds to the top as they can.
The leadship should be ashamed to take on 11% increase in compensation, while others lost their jobs and programs were cut. Then again, the leadership has lost touch with those working in the organization and have no shame. To the leadership, the scouts are just a money making machine to serve them.
Here is something I did not catch from the article that was printed on Saturday in the Orange County Register and special thanks to an anonymous blogger for making everything so simple.
“Nearly 70 percent of Orange County Scouts’ spending is on programs, the camping/character-building activities that form the core mission of the group (down from more than 77 percent in the two prior years). About 21.5 percent was spent on management (up from 14.7 percent in the two prior years). And 11.4 percent was spent on fundraising (up 9.5 percent in the two prior years).
Nearly 70 % Program Spending
About 21.5 % Management Spending
And 11.4 % Fundraising Spending
= ~ 103%
This totally discounts the entire printed article as you can clearly see (without all the added numbers) the angle taken as the author cannot even equal 100%.