- NEWS
- Chapman adds $204 million to O.C. economy 2 hours & 17 minutes ago
- Man stabbed outside home in Costa Mesa 1 hour & 23 minutes ago
- 1-in-4 O.C. offices to be empty next year 1 hour & 54 minutes ago
- Got an extra toy or can of food?
- SPORTS
- UCLA takes advantage of Arizona State 2 hours & 1 minute ago
- Bruins tailgate: 11-21-09 1 hour & 58 minutes ago
- Fundamental error sinks Ducks
- Ducks are running on empty
- BUSINESS
- New bills would extend COBRA subsidy 1 hour & 46 minutes ago
- Here's what $1 million will buy you in Irvine
- Poll: How common are violent co-workers? 2 minutes ago
- Got an extra toy or can of food?
- ENTERTAINMENT
- LIFE
- TRAVEL
- OPINION
National Boy Scouts respond: ‘We do a good job’
August 26th, 2008, 3:00 pm · 81 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
The Watchdog hoped that the Boy Scouts of America National Council would directly address questions about:
- how nonprofit watchdog Charity Navigator singled the Boy Scouts National Council out as having the nation’s highest-paid executive in the human services field (Roy Williams, chief scout executive, $589,143; Kenneth L. Connelly, assistant chief scout executive, $750,472; David J. Ross II, same title, $888,583 )
- and why the National Council needs $629 million invested in publicly-traded securities, and its plans for this considerable amount of money (most Scouts, she notes, pay their own way through programs).
Scouts spokesman Deron Smith’s response:
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to respond to your questions. Like many of your readers, we were very disappointed in the angle that you took in your stories/blog postings.
In response to your questions/postings we’d like to say that the BSA is one of the largest youth-serving organizations in America, with more than 4 million youth members and adult volunteers. When it comes to travel expenses, net assets or executive compensation the BSA and our volunteer National Executive Board strives to be good stewards of its financial resources.
The BSA builds the character and integrity of America’s youth by preparing young people to become exceptional adults by cultivating in them a sense of community, family, ambition, leadership, and priority so that they will make the world a better place. Together with our volunteers, we are proud to provide this service to America.
We asked Smith again to respond to these two specific questions; haven’t heard back.
If Scouting folks want answers, you might let the National Council know:
Boy Scouts of America National Council
1325 W. Walnut Hill Lane
PO Box 152079
Irving, TX 75015
Phone: (972) 580-2000
We’ll note here that a survey of “high net-worth consumers” ranked the Boy Scouts of America National Council no. 5 on a list of 41 most-trusted nonprofit organizations. The survey was done by the Luxury Institute in New York, and released today.
More Watchdog:
- OC Scouts leader’s pay rose while revenue fell
- OC Boy Scouts wrestle the economic downturn
- OC Boy Scouts, by the numbers
- The half-billion-dollar Boy Scout stash
- The million-dollar Boy Scout. Thrifty, indeed!
- God’s quid pro quo?
- Earthly kingdom: Trinity’s $167 million in real estate
- OC charity for burn victims burns donors
- Irvine house raffle: All in the family
- What’s next? Raffles to pay for trash pickup?! (IPSF)
- House raffle turns Ocean Institute’s red ink to black
- Tickets to Obama/McCain at Saddleback Church: ‘The Untold Story’
- OC Fair rolling in green stuff, but raising prices
- OC Fair workers rack up hundreds of hours of leave
- OC’s dead pets enter the food chain. Mmmm.
- Stop the killing! A no-nanny approach OC can emulate
- One million dollars paid to convicted felon…
- Why work? Carona hits pay dirt in retirement
- Lie a little on a resume? It’s OK in OC.
- The billionaire felon’s foundation: Where’s the bad guy?
- Who’s who in the badge fracas
- Badge? What badge?
- Want county cash? Better not request public records.
- Recycling dead animals 1: Waste not, want not?
- Jet Set Club: Your Congressmembers hit the road
- Nuclear plant inspectors earn less than some OC jail guards
- Human error at San Onofre nuclear plant
- On watch at the nuclear plant: Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
- Shhhhh. Nuclear plant security issues are secret
- Better than prison! San O’s security, behind-the-scenes
- The seniors are rioting! Call the police!
- It’s your building, but KEEP OUT!
- Fee hike on seniors pays for employee morale
- Drink the water. Really. It’s OK. Go ahead.
81 Comments
Leave a Reply
-
ADVERTISEMENT
-
Follow this blog:
-
More from OC Watchdog reports-
ADVERTISEMENT
You can follow this blog: on 
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to respond to your questions. Like many of your readers, we were very disappointed in the angle that you took in your stories/blog postings.
I am one of those readers. Again $629M in investments help ensure cash flow for the organization. Is your solution to spend the $629M and have no holding assets to drive dividends upon the allow for manageable cash flow.
And why are we talking about Boy Scouts in Irving, TX? Not even in Orange County?
I don’t know about many of your readers. I personally don’t think you go deep enough. Quite frankly, any organization that proposes to be the teacher of values and the last word on what’s right and what’s wrong, better be open to checks and balances and lots of scrutiny.
The more defensive the BSA becomes, the more I want to know what it is hiding.
Bucky,
All the 990s are available on the website for these organizations and completely 100% open for inspection. Download them and make your your educated understanding.
Also download what the Schools are spending with your direct tax dollars.
Thanks for the 411 on the schools. While I appreciate your dogged pursuit of other worthy targets, I would prefer to focus on one topic at a time.
As I stated, I do believe that the BSA, and the OC Council, are defensive and it leaves me to wonder what else they are hiding. The BSA seems to act this way when irregularities pop up, like spending at 5 star resorts and membership scandals.
Maybe there’s nothing here worth discussing, but where there is smoke, there is often fire.
Here is Alan again, can you stop talking? If this was a debate the red light has been on for a long time.
I’d like to know how they figure it’s being a good steward when management expenses increase by 61%, top management has an 8% pay raise and at the same time they have declining revenues.
If they cut the top management pay in half, it would be a very nice jesture. Believe me, top management will not leave even with their pay cut in half. Where else are they going to get a position paying $200,000? The money would be best spent on actual scout needs.
Deron Smith: you did not respond to the questions. You gave an answer about scouting, and that was not the question. You and the leadership might want to read the blog again. Most readers do not agree with how upper management handles the funding. If upper management really cares about scouting, they can start by cutting management cost, beginning with their own pay.
I doubt that will ever happen, it only shows the disconnect between top management and the scouts.
OK I’ll wade into this fact filled discussion.
Let’s compare the BSA executive salary to the salaries of another “kid” oriented OC organization… Children’s Hospital of Orange County.
CHOC is a major advertiser in OC Register and their community papers too.
So, they won’t post these things without having a phone call from their PR team.
The top paid executives at CHOC consume $4,369,374 in tax payer funds. The top paid independent contractors consume another $28,180,343 in tax payer funds.
Highest paid executives (consuming $4,369,374.00 in 2005)
(Page 9 of 32 appears to list Kim Cripe and Kerri Ruppert salary as zero. This unusual statement is also reflected in a statement on the Board of Directors. However, if you look at the tax return for Children’s Healthcare of California (a related organization), you will find the pertinent information. It appears that Ms. Ruppert chooses to post her salary related to CHOC on the CHC return. It is also interesting that the Children’s Healthcare of California return lists that Kim Cripe spends 2 hours per week working on the non-profit.
$1,101,159 - Kim Cripe - Chief Executive Officer - $846,394 in compensation, $215,965 in benefits, and $38,800 in expense accounts
$679,794 - Kerri Ruppert - Chief Financial Officer - $517,989 in compensation, $136,561 in benefits, and $25,244 in expense accounts
$630,424 - Maria Minon - Ex-officio Director - $441,664 in compensation, $168,489 in benefits, $20,271 expense account
$400,223 - Mark Headland - VP & Chief Info Officer - $311,194 in compensation, $79,342 in benefits, $9,687 expense account
$387,372 - Dana Bledsoe - VP Patient Services - $292,566 in compensation, $79,415 in benefits, $15,391 expense account
$384,629 - Margaret Conk - VP Business Development - $277,699 in compensation, $87,209 in benefits, $19,721 expense account
$280,331 - Theresa E. Gianfortune - VP Human Resources - $220,109 in compensation, $70,254 in benefits, $9,968 expense account
$271,990 - David R. Schinderle - VP Finance - $196,870 in compensation, $61,107 in benefits, $14,013 expense account
$233,452 - Steve O’Kane - Ex-officio director - $213,000 in compensation, 0 in benefits, $20,452 in expense account
Good one Jedi……cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste, great blogging I mean barfing!
Can we stop clouding the issue. Some people here are just pointing fingers at others, yet not responding about problems within their own group. Let’s take care of one group at a time.
The Boy Scout leadership could start making a good example by cutting top management pay. If you cut their pay in half, most of this problem goes away. THEN you can point fingers at other groups.
Dear Johnb,
I am clarifying the issue.
The ISSUE is NOT the BSA.
There is a difference between a VOLUNTARY organization that is no monopoly and a hospital that has MONOPOLIZED TAX PAYER MONEY.
GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT!
The BSA is for RECREATION.
The HOSPITAL is where your family’s future is decided FOR YOU WITHOUT YOU HAVING A CHOICE.
Now, if you want to continue the debate, please explain why the BSA is just such a life and death matter to you?
Here is the unclouded facts on the management of Boy Scouts here in Orange County:
Between 2000 and 2006 Boy Scouts of America has more then doubled their revenue growth.
Between 2003 and 2006 the Boy Scouts sold over $4M in assets. This includes camp assets in the amount of $1.4M following back to back years in 2002 & 2003 of less then half the normal public contributions. Since then asset sales are under control with less then 200K gain from security sales in 2006.
Les Baron replaced Kent Gibbs as the Scout Executive in 2004 at a savings of $100,000 in compensation in 2004! Since 2004 under Les Baron management program revenues continue to increase over a $1M annually as Scouts pay their share for program sponsered events - and yes scholarships are available for those who cannot afford the $30-35 weekend fees for camp. I strongly urge the Community to support fundraising efforts as a portion of the revenue (30% average) remain with the Pack to help their neighborhood based families attend the Scouting programs at a reduced cost.
Under Les Baron management public support nearly doubled since 2003 following back to back years where revenue from public contributions was flat.
Now I personally think Les Baron is worth the same if not more salary then Kent Gibbs was paid for his outstanding efforts to clean up the balance sheet and promote Scouting to the Community.
The fact remains that 2006 was an adjustment year as public contributions went from nearly $12M to $7M due in part to an economic slowdown and discontinue of support for Community Organizations that support leadership in our Youth by the United Way.
If you want to look at the numbers yourself, download them from GuideStar.
P.S. johnb - a good way to respond to the problem is getting involved which you still have not commented on my personal challenge for you to do just that.
While this blog is busy pursuing its progressive agenda couched under a now-tarnished, journalistic veil of integrity, let a member of the “internet” estate chastize the “4th” estate for their lack of objectivity and reporting.
I can say this with certainty because of the contracts and agreements being written between the Boys and Girls Clubs and the CHOC executives. Care to publish those contracts?
Is this being counted as a part of the 4.5 million a year in service program revenue for CHOC or for the Boys and Girls Club?
TERI:
When a blog has to be used to do your job, it really brings into question the real motives of the journalists involved. The reader is left to ponder if you have another agenda here?
For this reason, it would be a wise idea to stop the pantomime and start publishing some real facts instead.
There is one big difference between Boy Scouts and Boys and Girls Clubs.
Boy Scouts learn to survive on their own without $4.5 million dollars in tax payer handouts.
Let’s talk about the structure of the BSA versus the Boys and Girls Club clinics which you know so well.
Or should we not?
Is this just about throwing more mud at the BSA and flag while the progressives are throwing another $1 million a month at their favorite charities?
Why don’t you do some homework during your day job and stop pestering volunteer scout leaders?
Why don’t you post the REAL FACTS on the hospitals instead of posting rickrolling pointers to a non-existant story in your “Non-profit” link?
Why don’t you come clean on your own funding for yourself first?
Or, are you immune from the disclosure and transparency because you are a blogger?
No offense, but there is a big difference between BSA’s volunteer programs and the under performance in the local healthcare system which results in the deaths of our fellow citizens.
Strongsidejedi, I do appreciate your passion. As I’ve told you before, we *will* be looking at nonprofit hospitals. Until you become my assigning editor, though, it may not be on the time schedule you’d like. You do seem to be doing rather well getting your point across, though.
Strongisjedi’s posts are clearly off topic, no matter how much he tries to tie them in. At first, I thought he was just trying to move us on to a bigger target as some sort of diversionary tactic. Now, it appears that he wants us to talk about what he wants to talk about.
I vote to delete the off topic posts—including this one. I also motion to put a frozen yogurt machine in the cafeteria. All in favor?
strongsidejedi, try sticking to the topic at hand, the BSA. Your trying to muddy the water will not work here.
You might try answering the questions, why is the BSA top leadship the highest paid of non-profit groups? Couldn’t the leadership get by with $200,000 a year instead of over $500,000? Why do they have $629 million in the stock market, yet most scouts have to pay their own way.
Johnb Says:
You might try answering the questions, why is the BSA top leadship the highest paid of non-profit groups?
I guess 1.9M affiliate bonuses for executives of non-profits do not count as pay?
Here again are the unmuddy facts on the management of Boy Scouts right here in Orange County and not Irving, TX:
Between 2000 and 2006 Boy Scouts of America has more then doubled their revenue growth.
Between 2003 and 2006 the Boy Scouts sold over $4M in assets. This includes camp assets in the amount of $1.4M following back to back years in 2002 & 2003 of less then half the normal public contributions. Since then asset sales are under control with less then 200K gain from security sales in 2006.
Les Baron replaced Kent Gibbs as the Scout Executive in 2004 at a savings of $100,000 in compensation in 2004! Since 2004 under Les Baron management program revenues continue to increase over a $1M annually as Scouts pay their share for program sponsered events - and yes scholarships are available for those who cannot afford the $30-35 weekend fees for camp. I strongly urge the Community to support fundraising efforts as a portion of the revenue (30% average) remain with the Pack to help their neighborhood based families attend the Scouting programs at a reduced cost.
Under Les Baron management public support nearly doubled since 2003 following back to back years where revenue from public contributions was flat.
Now I personally think Les Baron is worth the same if not more salary then Kent Gibbs was paid for his outstanding efforts to clean up the balance sheet and promote Scouting to the Community.
The fact remains that 2006 was an adjustment year as public contributions went from nearly $12M to $7M due in part to an economic slowdown and discontinue of support for Community Organizations that support leadership in our Youth by the United Way.
If you want to look at the numbers yourself, download them from GuideStar.
Alan, I’m just wondering. You mentioned “Grankmaker Training “. Are you involved with helping groups to manage donations or are you part of a company handling donations? I’m wondering if your discussions are “not wanting to bite the hand that feeds you”?
Just wondering.
Teri, I didn’t know they taught Brat in Jounalism school now
Alan, you asked:
“I guess 1.9M affiliate bonuses for executives of non-profits do not count as pay?”
I asked about the BSA, not the other 1.9 million execs. Lets take one group at a time.
# Johnb Says:
I asked about the BSA, not the other 1.9 million execs. Lets take one group at a time.
Actually you compared the national average and I just mentioned that that national figure must not include the affiliate bonuses of $1.9M.
If you are going to compare let us compare otherwise do not tell me that I need to stick with one group at a time.
Alan, I was comparing peoples income levels, not execs bonuses. Not everyone is an exec, but most of us do have incomes. That is what you compare. Lets stay on track here.
JohnB says “I was comparing peoples income levels.”
No, actually, you were ignoring the comparison to CHOC and the monopoly over healthcare.
You also ignore the context of the BSA being a voluntary organization which really does not garner alot of federal or state tax payer funds.
On the other hand, non-profits which get dumped $10 MILLION tax payer dollars per week get your attention “later”.
What exactly is your priority and why?
Teri,
If you appreciate the disclosure…
if you are really a journalist…
if the Register is really a newpaper…
PUBLISH the story.
You haven’t even written that story.
It appears you have no interest because you’re being too afraid to cover the TOTAL news and you won’t go there.
Well, You can’t be the OC Watchdog and bark at the Board of Sup’s when you won’t scratch the flea off the back of the Register advertising accounts.
Come now, is the Sisters and CHOC account worth that much?
Instead, we’re treated to more tar and feather for a VOLUNTARY community service organization (BSA) with little in the way of Tax payer allocations.
I’d say that your editor should consider the lives of us all as a higher priority than who is selling Scout baked goods at a mark up.
Cal Optima’s story got me started after seeing people harmed or die in that scheme.
strongsidejedi should be ignored since he or she can’t seem to stay on topic. The topic is the BSA, not any other group.
Alan, do any of the people at the top give back any part of their salaries to the Scouts? Since they work for the BSA, do not tell us about the 60 hours a week they put it. Those are hours they are paid, and paid very well. Do any at the top do anything for the Scouts out of their own pockets? Every parent of a scout puts in their own time and money. As a percentage of time and money of their lives, who puts in more? The top people or the parents?
I ask what message does the top people send to the troops when they take higher compensation during an economic down turn.
Sixty hours a week hiding from their wives doesn’t impress me. How do the junkets to Florida fit into these workaholic’s schedules? Computer illiterate, and otherwise inefficient bosses who put in face time at work to look like they are earning their paychecks don’t impress me.
Alan,
Keep up the good work.
You are doing your good turn daily…as am I.
Bucky looks like an internet troll compared to your fact filled posting.
Thanks for keeping the faith.
Be Prepared.
Strongisjedi,
I disagree with Alan on this issue, but would not put you in his league. You have hurt his position by filling the blog with your nonsense. You should look elsewhere for peers.
message to internet trolls -
good morning.
The compensation of the BSA executives is small compared to the pay stolen from tax payers by local healthcare orgs which get tens of millions of dollars of tax payer funding per WEEK!
While you are busy claiming that I am the issue, the reality is that my comments are spot on.
BSA doesn’t take alot of tax payer money.
OC Register advertisers like the Sisters of St. Joseph, Hoag Hospital, CHOC, Kaiser etc…get loads!
So, where is this anti-Boy Scouts agenda originating?
Gee….. I wonder… does the conversation go something like…
“Pass me another appropriation bill Joe and Loretta… the Progressives need more fuel at OC Register. My advertising budget is getting too low.”
BSA is transparent with their money.
How about those private government contractors with software development fees and similar?
Bucky Says:
I disagree with Alan on this issue.
I agree with your recent article reference. I read a little of it last night and it is so true that 2/3 of non-profits executives are under paid and the biggest barrier to entry is networking and the ability to find major donors.
strongsidejedi Says:
BSA doesn’t take alot of tax payer money.
Actually the take no direct tax payer support.
Have you noticed how these people want a competative wage when it means increasing their’s, but for people on a production floor, for example, they compare the costs of wages to India, China or Mexico, and want lower wages kept low.
Actually in the reference material used in the article it mentions ALL nonprofits employees are underpaid in comparison to for profit organizations.
Alan,
The irony is that no matter what you post, there are trolls who lurk on the net and only post to raise your ire.
Their activity is well known among internet discussion boards.
They use the same tactics as they begin to lose the argument.
The biggest example is when they can’t argue the facts, and then they begin to attack the person.
That’s the difference between Boy Scouts and “club members”. BSA is not a “club”. It teaches family values and leadership skills.
The internet trolls who are lurking on this blog are just that… out of a cave and short on brains.
When they start attacking the pseudonym, you know you have already won the argument.
Alan and why should a non-profit exec get paid the same as a for profit exec? The businesses are not the same. The for profit business get their income from selling a product or service. The non-profits are not selling anything, they require people to donate to them. By asking for more pay and compensation they are actually taking away from those whom they should be serving.
No, they are not the same. A NFP shouldn’t necessarily always get paid more.
In this business, the customer and the consumer can be two different groups. The customers are those that want the Boy Scout program. That can be those that want to share their experiences, or just make a world where everyone thinks like them. The reasons are all over the map. It is also the parents.
The consumers are the boys. The use the product, which is the program.
I don’t know if roundtables are paid for by the council, as they are sometimes held in churches or donated space.
From my understanding, the $10 goes to National. The popcorn sales may pay the salaries of the councils as well as regional employees. There are rules governing where National the councils can raise money. National cannot compete. If a local business were to call up National with a huge offer of cash, National would refer that business to the local council.
The councils are franchises of the national organization. The pay ranges are set by a schedule, as are most of the policies and standard operating procedures. National keeps pretty tight reigns on the councils. The units are franchised from the councils.
Alan you said: “Again you bring pay and compensation in the same statement”
You are sounding like Oral Roberts. In the late 80’s he made a statement that he never got paid more then $20,000 a year from the church. He may have been right about that, the church paid for everything else, his home, car, travel, insurance, medical… You would call it compansation
I guess according to you, Oral Roberts dosen’t make alot of money….he’s just compansated ALOT!
I am an internet troll who says…..ALAN, get a life! You too Obiwan and john, anyone that takes 50 blogs to get a point acros is a loooooooser! Alan just won #1 Blogger loser on Amerca’s Choice Awards.
Alan you said “based on there (their) ability to raise money”. So tell me what special skills does it take to ask others for donations? Are there special degrees or colleges that have majors in asking others for money?
Reading the trolls on this blog is a bit like looking at the munchkins on the brick road…. their road is gold and they don’t have the ability to pick up the brick and use it.
OC hospitals appear to have gold plated driveways, brass plated bathrooms, marble clad lobbies, and granite countertops for offices.
Guess who bought all that fluff?
YOU DID WITH YOUR TAX PAYER MONEY.
Now, compare to the anti-Boy Scout trolls here… BSA took no TaxPayer funds and uses NO TAX PAYER MONEY.
Boys and Girls Club claims $4.5 million in revenue from TAX PAYER MONEY.
FIGURE IT OUT PEOPLE!
See the blog at ochospitals.blogspot.com for more on the “non-profit” hospitals budgets in the OC
Hey Alan, you do know the meaning of: Executive compensation?
“Executive compensation (also, director remuneration) is how top executives of business corporations are paid. This includes a basic salary, bonuses, shares, options and other company benefits for work on the board of directors. Over the past three decades, director remuneration has risen dramatically beyond the rising levels of an average worker’s wage.
When responsibility for executive compensation levels is ultimately the executives’, there could be, what management scientists call, significant agency costs.”
You do agree with this definition?
Alan,
What is my unsubstantiated statement? What would count as proof?
Look, this was not a witch hunt. The OCR just through out some reports of some numbers as they found on the Internet. Les Baron has a target on his back from the Tampa membership scandal and from the standard of living at the Florida resort.
No one has beat up on the organization. Most are involved, or have some experience in the organization. We are as much as stakeholder as anyone else. When we are asked to volunteer many hours, or to give our loyalty to the organization, we have a right to complain. If we get a little help from the news, then so be it.
We are smart enough to differentiate an attack on an organization and its leadership. We don’t circle the wagons because the Council is not one man. You aren’t defending the Boy Scouts. You are defending Les Baron and the board. I would prefer our reputation kept clean through more efficient housecleaning, and not the spirited defense of those drinking the Kool-Aid.
Bucky,
I looked at the Tampa Scandal you like to call it and he got a lot of very good deals from the services he used during this training and networking program.
It appears the OC Council was the hosting organization. I have gone to some of these events (not with the Boy Scouts) and the bill at the end of the day exceeds $100,000. The return on the investment and increase of network resources and strategies are endless.
Again let us keep focused on the topic.
You cannot say that these 10 articles are not a witchhunt when her recent one only references holding completely incorrectly as even seen by the readers of the poll. 2 out of 3 clearly understand organizational finance and stability.
So Deron was incorrect in his assessment that these articles are anything but an inappropriate geared campaign and the “angle that (Ms. Sforza) took was to misrepresent figures by placing Les Baron and other Executives of similar sized organizations in the same category as a national average versus equal comparison to like sized entities?
More importantly, OCRegister should be comparing those salaries with similar LOCAL organizations….
That is why I posted the results of our review of the Guidestar data.
Alan,
We’re talking about two different scandals. I am not calling the meeting in Florida the ‘Tampa Scandal’ and have not given it a name.
The BSA has been plagued with membership scandals. One of them was with a council in Tampa, Fl. Les Baron was the Scout Exec at that time. I knew of the scandal, but did not put his name to it until one of the posters mentioned it. He is not going to escape scrutiny.
I too have been to some of these events (the other scandal). Well, not that event, but other events. They seem more like junkets and the networking could’ve been done cheaper. Either way, if the purpose is networking, the Scouts can order the salad and let the other guys eat the shrimp cocktail.
What do you mean by like sized entities? The number of boys served? The size of the staff? The amount of money in the portfolio? Do the operations of the Council require the same breadth and depth of skillsets to run, or is it just that its ‘big’? Are they really CEO’s or just area managers running a franchise?
Either way, I expect more from the leadership on what is right and what is wrong. This isn’t a witch hunt and many just want the Scouts to be way out in front on any issue. Especially ones that enrich themselves.
So the author implying the purpose of securities investments is only to prevent money from going back to the Community is not misrepresenting the facts?
Does her poll not gear the reader to vote yes?
So is Mr. Deron Smith assessment incorrect that they are geared with an inappropriate angle?
Why after 10 articles Ms. Sforza in less then a workweek never compare figures based on like size organizations as referenced from the exact same report that shows the national average (For the record it was based on revenue.)?
What is the agenda?
This wasn’t a response to what I wrote at all. You are also responding later in the game to a point that I stated early and often, that I am inclined to believe myself. If the article on portfolio was supposed to be a take down, it wasn’t. Building large resources, and working off the interest, can solve a lot of problem. It can also raise some questions down the road. Look at some of the Ivy League schools with very, very large investments, and not enough spending.
I would not say ’similar sized’ based on on revenue. From my understanding, a Council is sized according to Total Available Youth (TAY). Revenue is a good mark for the ‘for profit’ sector if proper managerial accounting is done properly. There isn’t enough evidence here to indict him or exonerate him.
As far as the agenda goes, this is a blog, not a NYT six page smackdown. They throw nerfballs in the arena and let the gladiators with too much time on their hands try to beat each other to death for the entertainment of the masses. By “masses” I mean the three people still reading this blog are the ones posting.
Alan,
Before we go on, what is the agenda? Who is out there stupid enough to believe that this is going to take down the Boy Scouts? So far, the worst you have is a few articles saying “tisk, tisk” about a few expense reports, and asking if perhaps the boss can take a cut and use some assets to keep some staff on. Whether this is a wise course of action is up for debate, but doesn’t show an agenda. It just sounds like they don’t really like the boss, and don’t agree with the decisions of the board.
The BSA does bring trouble upon itself. “We are disappointed” sounds so patronizing. Perhaps it could have been worded differently.
While this is probably focused on the OC Council a bit much, there is a raging debate in the rest of the world regarding CEO compensation; especially in the wake of layoffs. He gets a raise based on performance, they get laid off based on lack of money no matter how much work they do. The ones left behind are doing more with less. Are they getting raises? How are the lower ranked salaried employees doing? Its how it works with hourly and salaried employees everywhere. We just want to Boy Scouts to have better answers.
Les Baron will be a target. He is the head of a large organization with a little dirt on his hands. Sure, they will be a lot of misunderstanding, but where there is smoke, there is fire.
It can also raise some questions down the road. Look at some of the Ivy League schools with very, very large investments, and not enough spending.
This article is on the Boy Scouts and Deron Smith response. Please stay on topic.
Again is Mr. Deron Smith assessment incorrect that theses 10 articles in less then a workweek geared with an inappropriate angle?
Why after 10 articles Ms. Sforza in less then a workweek never compare figures based on like size organizations as referenced from the exact same report that shows the national average?
Let us clear the smoke being created by posts related to Ivy League School and address the fire created by Ms. Sforza angled agenda.
Alan,
I am on topic, You cherry picked a sentence from a larger post and threw it back. You’re better than this. I said that this issue is not unique to Scouting, but that doesn’t excuse us for making everyone else our yardstick. The best that you’re going to do is assert that we aren’t as deep in the gray area as the other guys. These are not the values we should teach our kids. Be the least guilty in the room, and that makes you a good guy by comparison.
What is the agenda? Who is out to get us? They seem to be picking on the Scout Executive and the board. I haven’t heard them say that Life Scout Bobby McGee is a dork and should get beat up at lunch or that that Chuck Smith’s Eagle Scout project was a little wanting in aesthetics.
Ms. Sforza is probably a very bad person and hates men. That’s probably her agenda, but it doesn’t make her wrong.
These articles are unique to Scouting and took 10 of them to try to make a point that holding assets does only only thing - prevent the Community for receiving benefits versus ensuring these programs continue for years to come.
Deron Smith was correct in his assessment that her angle of attacking the Boy Scouts was inappropriate.
No it didn’t. You’re very defensive, Alan. No one is attacking Scouting. Look, no one is above reproach and I drove by the Council today and there was no mob storming the building with pitchforks and torches.
These aren’t articles. They’re just short blog posts, and no one is confusing them with actual front page reporting. They’ve gone after others in the same amount of time.
What gets some of us is the Kool-Aid drinkers who come out with the rhetoric (”What about the boys, the agenda, the flags planted on veterans graves”) when the OCR only throwing soft pitches. Guys like you worry us because you’re the type that is going to fight the fight when something bigger happens, and some of us would prefer that no one be above reproach.
Its always the guy with that went to Wood Badge three times, has way too many knots on his uniform, and will show a Medal of Honor recipient his Silver Beaver award. Some of us love the program. Just not the knee jerk reaction to defend the honor of the king at all costs.
I am just defensive to liberal media attacks (articles or blogs).
As Deron Smith said, the angle used by the author is inappropriate and that is apparent with 10 articles concluding that organization do not need assets.
Bucky Says:
We don’t know if anyone here is a Liberal or that the Conservatives have a monopoly of right and wrong.
Ok sorry - I should of stated the uneducated media attacks or there willingness not to fully disclosure all the information that is public available and referenced in the same documents referenced in comparisons.
Alan “Everyone hurts in a recessions and Boys Scouts are not exempt”…Please leave out the “EVERYONE”. The top of the BSA are NOT hurting, they are actually prospering, while others within the organization are out of a job or had their programs cut.
We all understand that you lost your job and fully get the picture. So yes everyone hurts in a recession.
Did you get the fact that a mere $152K/year to MANAGE the largest youth organization in the World was paid to the top executive in compensation - which for the hundredth time does not reflect what is paid and includes, payroll taxes solely paid by the employer which rose 36.1%, health benefits which rose 78% in Texas since 2001 and continue every year.
Let us look at the real numbers and not compare compensation to salary or wages.
Alan, the top leaders of the BSA were in no way hurt by the recession, as I said, they even increased their own compensation. Isn’t that nice of them. They laid off staff and cut programs while increasing their take. There’s no way around that, pure greed at the top. Then again you have to support people like them, don’t want to “bite the hand that feeds you”.
Read the facts for once and get the truth.
They do not pay me a penny for my role as a parent of a Scout. Again get your facts correct and read the 990s instead of believing the newspaper as an encyclopedia.
Alan, I said you have to support people LIKE them. According to one of your previous post’s, you work in this area. It’s people LIKE the leaders of BSA that pay you.
Alan, I would be in favor of cutting off some of the foreign aide our government waste and give afew hundred million to the scouts. Spend the money here on our own people.
You’re better than this, Alan. I’ll give you that much. I work with numbers too and we both know that your math represents a roundup error. Ms. Sforza did state “nearly 70 percent” and the percentages were rounded up to the nearest tenths. When added together, they will not equal 100%.
She did roundoff to integers when comparing programs from previous years, and to the tenths when comparing the changes in management and fundraising expenses.
You also present a false choice. There are many other alternatives to just sending the kid upstairs to his room every night (though he should some nights). The Boy Scouts is one of them.
This is a good program, but many even inside Scouting do take offense to the rhetoric. I’ve delivered the FOS presentations myself, and it was quite painful to tell the parents that without the BSA, drugs and gangs would pop up in our affluent neighborhoods. I’ve sat through many a ‘they are out to get us’ call to arms.
The BSA is not being picked on. It is a powerful organization run by powerful people with powerful connections. Those in power assert that they are the authority in what is right and what is wrong. Throwing rocks at the powerful, and the high and mighty, has been around since the Ancient Greeks. Anything that remotely smells like hypocrisy makes them a target and many volunteers and parents feel the same way about the upper management of the movement.
The movement will not die from the outside, but from lack of trust from the inside.
Alan,
Like I stated, she rounded off the program numbers to the integer and the other numbers to the tenth. But, she rounded did the same with like numbers. This isn’t a spreadsheet, and the rounding off numbers for presentation will produce results that do not add up to %100.
Journalists are as stupid as lawyers when it comes to math and as clueless as James Dobson on science. Maybe she can try again, but it looks like she’s trying to appease Strongsidejedi today.
I never objected to the debate over the numbers. I only object to the patronizing and the shoehorning of the fear that everyone is out to get us. The BSA, as a whole, does good things. But, it is a not a sacred institution with infallible leaders and the our detractors often have a point. We’re just not very honest with ourselves, or with them when confronted with the truth.
Ok, lets use the rounding range as you state but do not present information. James Dobson can at least do second grade math. However, let us talk how much federal tax dollars were spend to protect Cub Scouts on a Community Service Project from leftist extremists attack against their school bus while they were trapped inside.
Here is numbers using your range argument…
Programs: 69.5 to 70.4
Operations: 21.45 to 21.54
Fundraising: 11.35 to 11.44
equals = 102.3% to 103.38 and still exceeds the maximum of 100%
Alan,
That’s not an appreciable error, and the introduction of a emotional topic has nothing to do with it.
That’s what I’m talking about. You come in with FACTS as you assert them, which is appropriate for the debate, but then you overextend yourself with rhetoric. We aren’t part of the solution. Everyone on the council board is so much more a part of the answer than we are. There’s a hidden agenda. These boys are ‘future leaders’.
Well, the only crime in that’s been reported in my area was from a young Eagle Scout. We lose most of the Cub Scouts to Lipstick, Gas, and Cars. If it isn’t the playground beatings when they’re younger, its looking like a dork when competing with a rival for the affections of a girl when they’re older.
The dorky uniforms do more to scare kids out of the program than angry leftists.
Bucky Says:
FACTS as you assert them
Programs: 69.5 to 70.4
Operations: 21.45 to 21.54
Fundraising: 11.35 to 11.44
equals = 102.3% to 103.38 and still exceeds the maximum of 100%
Even I can use a calculator. I guess you have not been listening to the news about Cub Scouts being physically attacked by leftest protests en route to the Replication National Convention. Again, how much tax dollars were spend controlling the protester from beating to death an eight year old kids in Cub Scouts. Maybe it is time to listen to what is going on in the World.
In regards to throwing out emotional in an effort to take the focus off the facts, you should read your own posts referencing pedophilias, gays, Dobson, and even Lipstick now.
Again the fact is the numbers presented by Orange County Register do not reflect the actual numbers as you can see by the authors own writing. Research it yourself. The truth is very educational.
If you need I can take screen shots of the actual tax returns and post them for you if you do not have adobe acrobat reader.
Again, 102.3 nor 103.38 does not equal 100.
Here is a challenge for you. Can you tell me which item is inflated a calculation by 42.5% (0.42499812674737146036239691828816)? Or have you even looked at the factual detail behind her reporting.
Again as referenced in this article Ms. Sforza took an inappropriate angle an further used numbers that simply do not balance with basic math.
Alan, your world is going to get very gray, and you are just trying to win an argument on a piece that was never more than a value judgment. The best either side was ever going to come up with is yelling ‘I’m right’ the loudest. Even if we agreed on the numbers.
BTW, the Lipstick statement is from the BSA. The saying is that we lose the boys from Lipstick, Gasoline, and Cars. I think I got that right. I’m a bit off on that one. It means that we lose boys to dating and driving.
Wait a minute. Are you in Scouting at all? You seem to get all your information by Googling, and you miss the simple inside Scouting references. You’re a plant trying to make the BSA look bad, aren’t you?
I tell you what, I’ll put it to rest right now, and we’ll meet again when Ms. Sforza has something bigger to report. Tomorrow is another day.
Just here to state facts and not try to pull emotional into the equation. Again do you have any financial numbers that counter the reality?
P.S. I am not within the organization and get the facts from the 990 tax filing if you were with us on any part of this discussion you would or been up to speed. Look forward to another day of useless emotional and personal attacks at me. Good Night.